Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman No2.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

And again, 'cos I think I'll do this every time now that GC feminists are accused of wanting to deny the existence of transpeople,I would trust my minor trans kid with a GC feminist

In fact, I would prefer my trans kid to be around GC feminists than a lot of other people in society, including so-called 'allies'.

This is for a couple of reasons - firstly, GC femininsts understand safeguarding. This is a big deal to me. I am not convinced that genderists do.

Secondly, GC feminists would not be filling my child's head with a pack of lies about sex being a spectrum, which only confuses and distresses him. They'd tell my child that sex is binary. sure, but within that material constraint, he should feel free to break away from as many sex stereotypes as he wants. That's what it means to be gender critical, and I think it's a good thing, and something I want for all my kids to feel free to do.

Thirdly, and this applies especially but not only to lesbian GC feminists, they would support his homosexuality, and not add to his internalised homophobia.

And lastly ? They would do all this while challenging him to be a better person, and understand his male privilege, even as he rejects masculinity. I like it when people have high standards for my kids. They can definitely reach those standards. I hate the bigotry of low expectation.

Yep, as the family of a trans person, I find GC feminists to be safe and healthy people to have around my child. I do not feel they would be denying him, his dysphoria, or his need to live outside of the masculine.

And that holds, regardless of whether, upon a future proposed transition, they called him a trans woman, a transwoman, a trans identified male, or a male.

On the mobile site click the down arrow on the top right -> advanced search -> search by keyword -> posts by username

Thanks! That's helpful.

I'm a bit concerned about people being able to use multiple usernames, though. That makes it difficult to isolate and identify abusive posters, and also means that posters can evade responsibility for their output. Obviously, though, if it ever came to reporting prolonged abuse to the police, then they could check through user addresses and locations.

Lurkers and genderists, stop trying to weaponise families of trans people against GC feminists, who are fighting, quite rightly, for womens' and girls' rights.

If we lived in a GC feminist world, there would be far less distress to children like mine, struggling with a stereotyped world.

Yes, still yay too.

That makes it difficult to isolate and identify abusive posters, and also means that posters can evade responsibility for their output

MNHQ can see name changes so if a poster is being abusive under one name you can report and MNHQ will be able to see all of their posts irrespective of name changes (I think)

If an individual post is obviously abusive report. If there is a pattern of posts which seen as a whole are problematic report and state this in the free text box. The mods can be quite good at looking at posts in context.

Lols rufus. Was like a torture 😉😉😎 just watching

Lolz, why? Because you didn't like the way it was going?
What does it take away from women safety wise saying trans women?

If you suspect someone is changing name within a single thread for sock puppeting purposes, report. That's against the rules.

MN allows name changes so people can post, say, about a child's medical condition without it being linked to the rest of their posting history, or simply to stop people trawling through five years of posting history to stalk them (we had an incredibly creepy punter on here who used to stalk all the women on the site who had at any time mentioned being in the sex industry). But MN doesn't allow sockies and will ban/suspend (cos the mods can check name changes)

Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood

What should they be called instead then?

LimeKiwi

That question was answered several times on the original thread.

That question was answered several times on the original thread

Sorry, missed it if so will go and have a look

Transfeminine male
Transmasculine female

Transfem or transmasc for short.

Because gender is only femininity or masculinity, it's got nothing to do with woman or man (which only refer to the adult female or male, as opposed to the juvenile).

Ah, with you - just been to look and this thread title should have given me a clue.
Trans identifying male.
They don't identify as a male though, they're trans women so why would trans identifying male be the go to call them?
For people who don't want or like labels or names forced on them I'm not sure how this is any different to deny them that.

Woman and women is a specific class, and it does not include men. It is not at all complicated.

Interesting on a thread about MN not banning what people say, You are now saying MN shouldn’t allow name changes so that you can police what other people are saying. Fascinating view.

Yes I do NC for FWR, to stop crazies stalking my posts and outing me. It’s an anonymous forum. I could be your sister for all you know.

sealion

Thank you. Seriously. That was the one name not called on the last thread for anyone and I was wondering when it would crop up!

Interesting on a thread about MN not banning what people say, You are now saying MN shouldn’t allow name changes so that you can police what other people are saying. Fascinating view.

Yes, it's weird lol.
There's nothing wrong with name changing on MN, a lot of people do it as they don't want a long posting history of all under the same name for outing reasons or whatever.
Even if you're just posting about what you have for your tea or kids doing your head in, makes sense to name change every few months or so. It does to me anyway.

Namechanging from one board to another, or even one thread to another, is perfectly legit - it's namechanging within a thread for the purposes of sock-puppeting that's frowned on.

They don't identify as a male though, they're trans women so why would trans identifying male be the go to call them?

But they are male. That's the point. Happy to call them "males who identify as women" if you prefer though. Have we found a solution? Praise be.

The good thing that came out of the last thread was firstly that the overwhelming majority of posters were behind the OP's request for MNHQ reconsidering their guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used. Even saying that they'd be ok for all descriptive terms to be allowed as long as the general talk guidelines were observed.

And secondly, because of the repetitive and relentless posts from the minority who disagreed with the OP, we got to see so many brilliant and articulate responses to these posts detailing such a wealth of information and reasons as to why it's so important that MNHQ are being asked to allow fact based descriptions rather than misleading ones.

it's namechanging within a thread for the purposes of sock-puppeting that's frowned on

Agree. That's not on. Where has anyone done that on these two threads though?

Happy to call them "males who identify as women" if you prefer though

Also happy with that - do we have the beginnings of a consensus?

Re. sock puppetting, I didn't say they were doing it on this thread, I was merely explaining the situation to someone upthread in pretty much identical terms to the ones you've used. So not quite sure why you're getting in such a lather about it.

Still a yay from me.

That other thread was was tedious. Kudos to all of you managing to stay the distance.

We should absolutely have all the words back. Every last one of them.

The naked desperation to stop women naming abusive men demonstrates why.

@EarlyWalker I could be your sister for all you know

No hang on, even if you are it doesn't matter as we seem to agree lol