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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Student kicked out of classroom as believes there are only male and female

146 replies

CumannNamBan · 14/06/2019 20:06

Really disturbing anti science and authoritarian, though I have some sympathy for the brainwashed teacher who is following policy twitter.com/lporiginalg/status/1139572227307794432?s=19

OP posts:
Deathgrip · 15/06/2019 08:37

It’s all become deliberately obfuscated.

The term is transgender, transsexual is no longer acceptable - transgender should mean changing gender, but is increasingly being pitched as changing sex.

Lordamighty · 15/06/2019 09:05

I hope someone is going to be there to stand up for Murray when the inevitable backlash starts.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 15/06/2019 09:09

Good on you Murray!

Secret recording is totally justifiable in situations like this, it’s effectively whistle blowing and I’m all for it. If you’re abusing your position as a teacher, you deserve it.

Sittinonthefloor · 15/06/2019 09:11

I’m a teacher and I wouldn’t normally agree with sharing videos secretly filmed in school - but this is really sinister and needs exposing.

Etino · 15/06/2019 09:13

One of my dcs hasn’t drunk the koolaid is gender critical and I’ve told him to keep his head down.

dancingcamper · 15/06/2019 09:29

I work in a school. Anyone could film you secretly at any time. It wouldn't all be flattering.

We are never allowed to be alone with a child out of sight of others (e.g. if doing 1:1 tutorial the door will have a window).

Given that, the job is essentially public at all times, so I have no problem with the child sharing this video.

TheRedBarrows · 15/06/2019 09:30

“It’s not very scientific”
“Not all policies are scientific”

Sexnotgender · 15/06/2019 09:34

He's a science teacher - he just wants to get on with the lesson - GCSE results are looming.

If he’s in Scotland the exams are finished.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/06/2019 09:35

According to the Reddit this is is a guidance teacher (Murray is one of his) and this is a PSE lesson.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 09:38

If that Reddit link is correct he's a 'guidance teacher' - and teaches sex education / PSHE ? And that's precisely the type of subject where you can undermine children's boundaries if you choose to.

Exqueezeme · 15/06/2019 09:46

I'm a Scottish teacher and I must have missed the boat on all this training. As far as I'm aware we are never to discuss personal/ political beliefs with children. I'm not sure anyone has ever mentioned all this gender stuff. Certainly no training has been attended.

Lordamighty · 15/06/2019 10:15

What are they going to adopt as policy next, creationism, flat earth? I mean if science is going to be sacrificed to beliefs there are no limits to the madness.

Frusty · 15/06/2019 10:42

The reddit link says the user has deleted their account.

GrumpyCatLives · 15/06/2019 10:49

The teacher is wrong, but I feel bad for them. If he had said that there are only two sexes, people would be going crazy about that too. He cant win. Nobody can until this whole thing is exposed.

toomanyleavesonthattree · 15/06/2019 10:58

Very noticeable that the student remained calm and reasonable whereas the teacher was barely in control of himself.

Schools are meant to encourage critical thinking and debate yet this young man was shot down for not accepting, what the teacher acknowledged, was an unscientific policy. In a decent education system, the teacher would have used the students question for an interesting discussion, that could have started with definitions of gender and sex..

And that student used gender as he has been taught that is the word for sex.

TheRedBarrows · 15/06/2019 11:05

“The teacher is wrong, but I feel bad for them. If he had said that there are only two sexes, people would be going crazy about that too. He cant win. Nobody can until this whole thing is exposed.”

The teacher being exposed this way exposed the system and the Orwellian ethos, not the individual.

toomanyleavesonthattree · 15/06/2019 11:22

I'm not sure this is about the teacher being in a difficult position.

It seems plausible that he is just an individual who doesn't like to be questioned and that is why he got so angry.

SpinsterOfArts · 15/06/2019 11:26

Alternative reddit link here: www.removeddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/c094bm/my_teacher_kicked_me_out_of_class_because_i_said/ where more context is given in the comments. (Search for comments by OP CrispyCyrus if you don't want to read them all!)

DanaPhoenix · 15/06/2019 12:03

Hell to the yeah Murray. Good for you son. If you can't stand up for your principles what else is there?

I have respect for teachers. But they should never be immune to criticism. There are abusive bullies within their ranks. I had one for year 8 math, specifically targeting me. Every lesson. When it all came to a head I was most certainly not as polite as Murray. I possibly set some sort of record for "fuck" in place of adjectives. My classmates response - what took you so long they've put shit on you for most this year? I still experience anxiety if asked a math question decades later.

DS1 also had issues with a teacher (never taught him) in 5th grade screaming in his face accusing him of something he had not done. He held up a hand and said stop, step back. I reported this to the Principal, who was so impressed with his calm, mature response urged him to run for one of the school officers positions. The teacher's contract was not renewed the next year. Apparently this was only one of numerous incidents.

Cwenthryth · 15/06/2019 12:17

Thanks for that link Spinster. That link is very difficult to read because of the formatting, but it looks like reddit (on a Jordan Peterson discussion board?) is where Murray posted his video first as he wanted to share his experience with people who would understand. He’s deleted all his own posts by the look of things and that link is an archive.

nickymanchester · 15/06/2019 12:40

dancingcamper Sat 15-Jun-19 09:29:48
I work in a school. Anyone could film you secretly at any time. It wouldn't all be flattering.

We are never allowed to be alone with a child out of sight of others (e.g. if doing 1:1 tutorial the door will have a window).

Given that, the job is essentially public at all times, so I have no problem with the child sharing this video.

Just to give a bit of a broader context to this, similar issues have been raised with parents recording meetings with social workers and people from CAFCASS.

Some parents have complained of being bullied or of what was actually said in a meeting being misreported or misrepresented but, being in a vulnerable position did not have the ability to argue their case. That is until the more widespread introduction of recording meetings started to happen.

Some practitioners tried to use the fact that parents felt compelled to record meetings as evidence that they were "failing to engage" and to further criticise them.

However, things have started to change and certainly CAFCASS for example explicitly tell their staff to expect to be recorded:-

We should have nothing to fear from covert recording. Our attitude should be, “I am doing my job and I have nothing to hide. I can explain why I said what I said or why I did what I did”. This is within the spirit of transparency in the family courts. We should always be transparent in our work, to meet contemporary expectations, including being able to defend whatever we say or write in a court under cross-examination, because we are working to a professional standard on behalf of a child. In this sense, we should expect that everything we say or write could become public knowledge.

I would argue that the above statement very much applies to teachers as well.

The issue of putting the video up on social media is different although, to be frank, I really have no idea what the law currently is on the issue of expectation of privacy in the workplace. Does anyone here know the answer to that?

JellySlice · 15/06/2019 12:46

It seems plausible that he is just an individual who doesn't like to be questioned and that is why he got so angry.

An authoritarian teacher who quite possibly thinks it's a load of gubbins, but is committed to affirming his personal authority and the authority of all authority figures. Commitment to his personal status quo being more important than anything else.

CrazyToast · 15/06/2019 12:49

The teacher was so worked up which makes me feel they were protecting their own views. If it really was about school policy then why were they so emotional about it? A very measured and rational young man there. I just hope it can be resolved sensibly without a witch-hunt of either party. I am not really hopeful about that though, things being how they are.

Cwenthryth · 15/06/2019 13:00

Murray has deleted his posts on reddit, but having read that archive link Spinster posted - posters here keep assuming that the teacher doesn’t believe the position he is defending - that is not the impression Murray presents as the other participant in this conversation. He stated that the teacher bought the subject up to start with, as a little rant criticising a website for only having male/female options. The teacher instigated the discussion, and sent a student out of the classroom for not agreeing with his viewpoint.

DanaPhoenix · 15/06/2019 13:26

dancingcamper

We are never allowed to be alone with a child out of sight of others

Hmmm very interesting. Because that’s precisely the position DS1 was in when he was verbally abused by a teacher (see comment up thread). He was delivering a basket of canteen orders to an kindergarten classroom just prior to the lunch bell. No children in the classroom - probably at PE.