Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

I said that Feminists shouldn’t have aligned with anti-abortionists in USA. I opened up about why I feel strongly about this. I was accused of ignoring someone else’s experience, the same person who said they ‘didnt Care’ about mine.

I opened up about my personal sexual abuse and needing an abortion and in return I was told I hate woman Because I said a victim of rape would probably place safe access to abortion over encountering a transwoman in a crisis centre if it came down to importance.

It got disgusting but thankfully, and for the first time, a few GC posters did defend me.

Afterwards I genuinely had posters messaging me saying the same tactic was used on them.

I’m done letting bullies win though. Every woman’s voice is important, careless of which side of the debate your on and who wishes to silence yours.

Earlywalker

I'm really sorry for your experience. That is awful.

I meant
What on earth was said to you?

This site is strictly moderated to let any viciousness through.

As to the ops original question,
I'd say the term trans identified isn't offensive at all.

However,
This site is strictly moderated, just in case.

Because I said a victim of rape would probably place safe access to abortion over encountering a transwoman in a crisis centre if it came down to importance.

And what a horrific woman-hating choice that would be if a woman was forced to make it.

Yep. What makes it worse is those same anti abortionists are now so close to removing a woman’s right to abortion in so many states. It’s awful and as a feminist, it is not something I could ever in a million years, condone or stay silent on.

But anyway, don’t want to derail the thread.

You do realise that this is an open forum on a public site, not a private member's club don't you?

Of course......but I'm not sure I'd invest so much time & energy gatecrashing someone else's 'club', just to be provocative. I'd have to be pretty riled to do that.

Also, you must surely understand that there are precious few other forums for people to meet and discuss in this way. This is it; apart from Resister groups in our towns and cities.

It's not just to be provocative. It's because I don't agree with some of the hateful comments that are written. There will be people reading them who are themselves, or have family members, directly affected.

Yep. What makes it worse is those same anti abortionists are now so close to removing a woman’s right to abortion in so many states. It’s awful and as a feminist, it is not something I could ever in a million years, condone or stay silent on

I entirely agree and I don't understand how any feminist could condone siding with them just because they happen to agree on one issue. That gives the anti abortionists an air of respectability, a chance to claim that they can't be anti women because look, feminists are supporting us.To me, that is not a price worth paying.

Because I said a victim of rape would probably place safe access to abortion over encountering a transwoman in a crisis centre if it came down to importance.

That is not a decision any woman should have to make.

There is no good reason why a woman seeking abortion as a result of rape, or for any other reason, when she has specifically requested female care, should encounter a surprise tw.

There are reasons why this might happen but none of them are good.

Women are allowed abortions and to expect female HCP if we have requested that.

Also, you must surely understand that there are precious few other forums for people to meet and discuss in this way. This is it; apart from Resister groups in our towns and cities.

And surely you must understand that posting on an open forum people who don't agree with you will see and comment on your posts.

It's true. On a public feminism board you will encounter anti-feminism.

Perhaps MNHQ will acknowledge that, rename this as GC chat, and start over again with a feminist chat board that isn’t so hostile to non GC viewpoints

Or what about just creating your own threads; ones that interest you and topics that you would like to discuss. Then people could choose to get involved or not. There are all sorts of threads on this board that I have little or no interest in spending much or any time on.

Having only joined Mumsnet last year, I've come to realise, quite quickly, just to focus on what brought me here in the first place - which is threads where people are developing the conversation and sharing information in GC ways.

So basically you just want people to sit around patting each other on the back without ever having to engage or really think about any Of what you’re saying?

I thought nodebate was what the TRAs were doing, not you?

Do you want an echo chamber? Do you think it’s healthy to only engage with people who have the same views as you? I don’t. People never learn anything new if they all follow the same sheep without questioning why they’re doing it and if they really want to go that way. As you all know.

Women are allowed abortions and to expect female HCP if we have requested that.

Just to clarify, I said that in response to posters saying the trans issue was the most important issue. Which is why they were willing to align with anti-abortionists to stop it. I disagreed. I’m not saying a woman should have to encounter a TW.

This does interest me. I post under another name on the parenting bits too. I wouldn’t post under this name on there and risk outing myself. People get crazy over this stuff, on both sides.

This board is filled to the brim with analysis by people who share basically the same viewpoint (feminism). It's the monotrack patriarchal thinking which exists everytwhere that's fucking boring. Women spinning and creating new thoughts and ideas about ourselves and the world around us is exciting. The spokes in the wheel not so much.

It's not just to be provocative. It's because I don't agree with some of the hateful comments that are written. There will be people reading them who are themselves, or have family members, directly affected

I understand that people have vastly different styles when expressing their views; and I too have struggled with some of the more 'aggressive' tone some of the time; but I understand it is pointless to monitor that, and I accept that as part of life on an internet forum. People congregate here from all walks of life, and life experience.

Can't say I've seen anything that is violent, threatening or even that hateful, to be honest, though. Certainly when what is now deemed to be 'hateful' is just disagreeing with the idea that men can become women; or refusing to use enforced speech codes which one feels inherent antipathy to.

There are no hateful comments here.

This site is very well moderated to not let hateful comments get through.

Again
And as a result of this thread, the likelihood of being able to call a transwoman, a trans identified man is probably not going to happen.
Thanks to a concerted effort by a persistent, disrupted few.

i see we are still having fun, been a lovely day, but im to tired to bother posting on this circular argument. I see jacky asked again what exactly a trans woman is, so its Full House for me lol. Hoping everyone plays nicely over night, the weather was a bit rubbish today. hoping it is better tomorrow.

So basically you just want people to sit around patting each other on the back without ever having to engage or really think about any Of what you’re saying?

I don't want to pat anyone's back ( unless I feel they are really in need of support). I'm thinking about what I'm saying a lot of the time at the moment; and am reading widely and educating myself around the issue too. I come here for sisterly support and the sharing of information. not to engage in lengthy antagonistic debate.

I did get involved in a thread about make-up recently - which was a bit of a mistake - and I did not really learn anything new from it. I'll just stick to the threads which i find pertinent now.

For most people who visit this part of the forum - it is the GC perspective/and commitemnt which brought them here.

I thought nodebate was what the TRAs were doing, not you?

You are spot on there.

Just it may well be that having only joined a year ago, and having come here for the GC focus, your idea of what the feminist chat board is or should be is not going to relate to posters who’ve been here on mumsnet for a decade or more.

What you’re saying is totally inconsistent. You’re incredulous and suspicious of why anyone non GC would choose to post on this board, then playing innocent about why there aren’t a lot of non GC posters starting threads in here.

This board was not intended as a members’ club for GC posters. If mn are happy to have it turn into one that’s up to them, but it would be better if it said what it was on the tin, rather than going by the name feminism chat, which it plainly isn’t any more.

And surely you must understand that posting on an open forum people who don't agree with you will see and comment on your posts

Of course, Mumsnet is widely read and referenced; and also 'monitored' and trolled. Many people just read but don't post.

I think most of this sort of extended, day long 'debate' though - tends to come from people with antipathy to the GC view; some of whom are wilfully seeking to disrupt and troll. Not saying that is you necessarily. But who wants to spend time hanging out on a forum which they know is committed to a perspective or standpoint which they find offensive or disagreeable?

Because why should those points be left to stand unchallenged?

I came here 6 years ago because I was pregnant and didn’t know what to do. I think I literally googled ‘I’m pregnant, what now’ or something like that and it bought me to MN.
I’ve stayed since because there’s hilarious stories and intelligent discussions, the feminist board used to be so full of passionate woman on issues that were so important. It taught me so much about feminism and the issues facing woman.
Then it turned into all about trans, And I would definitely say I sit somewhere in the middle of the debate. But One thing I have never and will never do is stay silent when I have an opinion - Which is probably why I’ve been beaten up so many times!
But I don’t think you should be seeing any Internet forum as a ‘safe space’ and it’s naive to think you won’t get differing opinions on such a prominent and emotive topic on an open forum.

Not welcoming debate, is a strange view to have. It’s not the people patting your backs that you need to get through too to be heard, you know.