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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Welcome Canada

153 replies

sashh · 14/06/2019 08:57

Do it has just been suggested on Twitter that Canada needs a Mumsnet, I have tweeted that Canada is welcome to join so I thought we could hold a small welcome gathering.

@MNHQ - I hope that's OK

OP posts:
Manderleyagain · 18/06/2019 10:54

Maybe this case could create some focus and publicity in Canada

www.thepostmillennial.com/ontario-family-files-human-rights-complaint-after-six-year-old-girl-upset-by-gender-theory-in-school/

A family are bringing a Human Rights case, claiming their 6 year old daughter was discriminated against, because she got the impression from school that girls and boys are not real, and she might not really be a girl.

Goosefoot · 18/06/2019 12:44

Manderleyagain

I don't know if you read the comments under that article, but one suggests that gender theory is the product of baby boomers suffering from lead poisoning! As good a theory as any I suppose.

Schrodangler · 18/06/2019 12:51

I know the thread's gone off topic slightly but I'm a British expat in Canada and new Mumsnet user and just wanted to say hello!

QueSera · 18/06/2019 14:38

Interesting news from Ontario (same story, just two different articles):

"Ontario family files human rights complaint after six-year-old girl upset by gender theory in school"
www.thepostmillennial.com/ontario-family-files-human-rights-complaint-after-six-year-old-girl-upset-by-gender-theory-in-school/

"Parents File Human Rights Complaint Against School For Teaching Child Her Identity As A Girl Is ‘Not Real’"
www.inquisitr.com/5487126/human-rights-complaint-gender-identity-ontario/

QueSera · 18/06/2019 14:39

Ack sorry didn't realise it was already posted!

Welcome Shrodangler! How's life in Canada going?

AudacityOfHope · 18/06/2019 14:45

Hello lovely Canadians Grin

Please, for the love of all that is holy, keep hold of your maple syrup and especially your maple-candied bacon 🤢

Apart from that, c'mon in!

Schrodangler · 18/06/2019 15:20

Hi QueSera,
All's well! I'm in Halifax with DH and DC and we've been here for 7 years now. Great place with lovely people.

NorthEndGal · 18/06/2019 16:37

HFX for the win! 😁

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/06/2019 16:40

All of Canada?

Hi there - you need a good shake! What is going on up there?

Winterlife · 18/06/2019 21:45

@50shadesofgreyrock, I’m not offended by what others think, particularly if it doesn’t reflect reality.

Right wing Lethbridge returned an NDP candidate to the legislature not too long ago, BTW.

I found Lethbridge to be insulated, not particularly welcoming to strangers the times I was there. But, you could hear that same conversation across the country.

Ornery · 19/06/2019 04:42

Any ideas how I can keep my job?
I’ve been rumbled for assigning shared bedroom accommodation by sex, not gender. Unofficially we often free upgrade those whose pronouns and genitals don’t match, to a single room, in order to protect single sex spaces. There is now a complaint pending. (I get it. It’s a surprise that it took so long. We have limited space and nowhere near enough single rooms, but our rationale is the need to protect women, not handout free upgrades to trans people).
Any succinct and professional Canadian-esque sources that can be used to defend our sex-based approach? I fear the aim may be to insist on removing sex-based accommodations. We have been doing our best to retain privacy and dignity for everyone, but does it mean that legally we are on thin ice?

Ornery · 19/06/2019 04:43

(No, I don’t work for VRR. But that might be the only option left for me at this rate...)

Mrstwiddle · 19/06/2019 05:16

Hello from Hope, BC! I commute a few days a week to Vancouver, and have found that I can’t even listen to CBC radio anymore without shouting at it and making myself ridiculously angry.

People here are so woke that it makes you apprehensive to say anything. Sometime ago they tried to have an information session in our small town about SOGI, but it was cancelled due to the Facebook wrath of the local woker than woke, do gooders.

To other Brits living here, which is probably most people on this post, does anyone else find Canadians are friendly, but it’s a relatively superficial friendliness? I haven’t made any good friends since I moved here, other than a couple of English colleagues.

Slacksandblouse · 19/06/2019 06:09

Hi there,
In resoonse go the above, no, it’s very hard to make friends here. People say oh it’s just where we live and that the rest of Canada is friendly. I find expats the easiest to get on with, which is lovely, but is a little sad too as it would be nice to have more Canadian friends. @Mrstwiddle

Slacksandblouse · 19/06/2019 06:11

And you’re about three hours from where I live @Mrstwiddle (that’s close in Canada isn’t it).

cordeliavorkosigan · 19/06/2019 06:20

We really need a Canadian Mumsnet, not just for the feminism but for the rest, the school questions, the play date dramas, the best things to do in .. for the day, the CF threads, all of it. Am in Canada now, was in the UK for 10 years. Miss MN being more local!

Mrstwiddle · 19/06/2019 08:09

@Slacksandblouse, ooh are you west or east of me?! Kelowna?

Yes, the people I find the most open and easy to get on with are all non Canadians, even crossing the border to the US, people seem more normal, which isn’t to say that Canadians aren’t really nice people, they are ridiculously nice (well, except Albertans) but still....they just seem to keep their distance, ho hum, can’t win them all!

Winterlife · 19/06/2019 08:28

ROFL. Albertans, particularly Edmonton and north, are very friendly. The only area in general that is friendlier is the Maritimes.

My husband is from another country and he commented on this immediately.

Vancouver, I found, was not an easy city to meet people, nor was Montreal. Toronto was in the middle.

Winterlife · 19/06/2019 08:43

@Ornery, what province are you in?

The issue could be a human rights tribunal complaint. Is the issue one of the transgender wanting to share a room with a woman, or wanting her own room? I assume pre op?

AprilHalley709 · 19/06/2019 13:40

@Ornery I don't understand why people have just rolled over for this madness. Misogyny is deeply entrenched in both men and women. Thank for putting up resistance.
Sex is a protected characteristic.The right of a group of males to 'gender' expression does not trump women's a right to safety.

Winterlife · 19/06/2019 14:05

Unfortunately, April, human rights tribunals in Canada have found otherwise.

Ornery · 19/06/2019 14:46

This is a group of women complaining. That if they identified as transgender (or said they did) they would be given a single room and only pay for a shared room. Which is completely true. And I get it. But we do it to protect their dignity and privacy so they don’t have to share with male bodied people, not because we are prioritizing anyone trans identified - that is an accidental outcome. I don’t know if they realise that the outcome won’t be free single rooms for everyone (we don’t have the real estate) - it will be room allocation strictly by gender (here is your room mate, yes she has a penis. You don’t want to share with her? Here is your bill for a single room. Sleep well.) And then of course the trans person would still be in a free single as their room mate would have moved out to a paid upgrade. And probably be called a bigot etc, which is the entire situation we are trying to avoid. The budget and real estate can just about cope with a few comps for trans people, but definitely not to do the same for everyone. I don’t want any woman put in the position of sharing a bedroom with a transwoman unknowingly, without theirexpress permission. We do have an admin workaround for this (consent from room mates) but it’s awkward, laborious, and may also contravene a culturally accepted legal framework where transwomen insist on being treated as women. (Gender neutral opt in rooms - even shakier ground if she identifies as female and we allocate her gender neutral room when it hasn’t been requested.)
I’m in BC. Where government funding has already been withdrawn from female spaces that do not accept TWAW.
And this isn’t an official organizational policy. We do this under the wire to protect women. So we are likely to be in the shit employment-wise. Possibly. Maybe.

QueSera · 19/06/2019 17:31

Ornery - Do the women who are complaining know the reason why you are moving tw to single rooms? Or are you not able to explain?

Goosefoot · 19/06/2019 19:01

Yes, it can be difficult to make close friends with Canadians. It's more noticeable in some parts of the country than others, but there is a kind of deep reserve, also related is a respect for other people's privacy which can seem like not being interested or caring.

Ornery · 19/06/2019 22:55

I think their issue is that they have to pay for a single if they want one, whereas tw get one by default. We would be on dodgy ground if we stated outright ‘x is trans so we gave x a single room’. (They have worked that out on their own). We can’t disclose or confirm that x is trans. Outing blah blah. I have suggested we refund their upgrade costs and hope that this pushes it all back neatly out of sight...