James O’Brien - ‘I categorically wouldn’t fancy a woman with a penis' **title edited by MNHQ**

[EweSurname]

Brave listener Juliet went on James’ show and talked about the cotton ceiling, the pressure on lesbians to give up their boundaries and the male violence that accompanies all of this.

During the discussion, James said he wouldn’t fancy a woman with a penis and thought it was unbelievable (though he believed her) that women would get shit for feeling the same.

Worth a listen here:

soundcloud.com/user-133591815/james-obrien-lbc-juliet

(courtesy of Jack Appleby mobile.twitter.com/jackappleby/status/1137033071222493184 )

Interestingly, James has yet to be inundated with accusations of being a terf, nazi or literal killer of trans people

And yet:

NHS safer sex guide for women who sleep with women issues mind boggling advice telling them to wear a CONDOM 'if you or your partner has a penis'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7119867/amp/NHS-safer-sex-guide-women-sleep-women-issues-mind-boggling-advice.html

EweSurname I just read that. How utterly shameful of the NHS.

Definite castration anxiety.

YY.

He was actually much better on Newsnight when it isn’t about his opinion and he can still grill those appearing on the show but he wants it to be about his opinion

On his radio show he often just comes across as a sneering bully of course he will be able to put across his argument better his does this day in day out and seems incredibly pleased with himself when callers get flustered

I really dislike this type of radio typically from male presenters as so often you hear their misogyny his has often come across loud and clear and of being the embarrassing leftie metropolitan elite voice of reason

Not surprised he has come out with this statement he knows he won’t get the same backlash as he is a man and of course can reason and ask questions it’s just us woman who can’t we are then hysterical bigots when we come out with questions

The reality is that for whatever reason very few people are open to dating trans people.
There was a survey done a while back and the most accepting group appeared to be lesbians but, to the shock of the author of the report, they expressed a preference for trans men rather than transwoman.
For some reason, it was assumed in the article that a lesbian would be more attracted to a male presenting as a woman rather than a female presenting as a man.
If we are to believe homosexuality exists then this makes no sense.

What does AWA stand for. I bet I'll feel stupid when someone answers!

DrSusan

What does AWA stand for. I bet I'll feel stupid when someone
answers!

Anti woman activist.

Does what it says on the tin, regardless of whether it's a TRA, MRA or plain ole bully.

@Datun

Thank you! And i do feel a bit stupid . . .

Thank you! And i do feel a bit stupid . . .

Don't. Not everyone uses it. I do think it's effective tho.

I think men often think of 'woman' as a marked sexual category. Not a non-man but a category that is principally about being sexually interesting and available. Man is indeed the default and the non-sexual category. Hence misogyny often comes out as hostility to any female who claims to be a woman but is not sexually available - where that is an autonomous refusal to be sexually available, e.g. not performing femininity or having lesbian sexuality. Not being sexually available because owned by another man is much more acceptable.

Men who say they are women, perform femininity and who are having sex with men are much more like these men's conception of a real woman that a woman who is not sexually interested in men at all. So James OB might see himself as defending women in a chivalrous way if he defends transwomen. Which would fit with him being nicer to a woman who sounds afraid.

In my busier than usual sex life I am meeting strangers for sex. It's very functional and in my view very biological - it's just something we both need to do. The number of these men who appear genuinely surprised if I mention having a period is extraordinary. They just don't think of sex with a woman as really involving female biology, just the bits they want to look at - some form of breasts, a lubricated indentation, and a bit of femininity. They assume I will be interested in and aroused by their two-girl fantasies but are all stunned if I suggest I'd like to see another man give them so much as a hand job, because men to them are not a sexual category, or because having sex with a man makes you a woman.

The reality is that for whatever reason very few people are open to dating trans people.

The thing that's not really spoken about is, I think, that trans people can, as a group, be terribly self involved.

If you've spent years thinking mostly about yourself, for whatever reason, then it makes you selfish. That's not attractive to many people, no matter what the reason for it is.

I listened, and I think what got to James was Juliet's fright in speaking. He's a man and he heard a woman afraid, in real fear, so much that she was having trouble even breathing. He reacted out of paternalism.
He doesn't respond with a listening ear to female voices he'd call "strident." But trembling ones he does listen to.

This. He couldn’t allow Posie to speak without punching her down, but he wasn’t threatened by Juliet so he could afford to play the concerned knight in shining armour. He’s still a misogynist bully, just not a stupid one.

For some reason, it was assumed in the article that a lesbian would be more attracted to a male presenting as a woman rather than a female presenting as a man.

If we are to believe homosexuality exists then this makes no sense.

But society doesn't really believe that female homosexuality exists. Women don't have a sexuality independent from men and although some of them are confused and you have to pay lip service to the idea that lesbianism is real because of political correctness, deep down many people think all these lesbians just need to meet the right man and the ones for whom that wouldn't work, are not real women anyway.

That's why people can have the ridiculous assumption that lesbians wouldn't notice that males who identify as women, aren't actually women. Because their sexuality isn't real anyway. And it's why this insane cotton ceiling ideology can have taken hold. Because no one really believed that a non-male centred sexuality was real; and if it's not real, then someone clinging to it in the face of the pain of a real human being with a real sexuality (a male), is just obviously a fucking total cruel bigoted bitch, because she's hanging on to this non-existent thing not because it's real and valid, but because she's just a horrible person who isn't fulfilling her proper function.

It's why all the wokey blokeys like JOB who are otherwise on board with #metoo and women's boundaries, can be so inconsistent when faced with the cotton ceiling. It's real deep subliminal stuff.

He’s really good at calling people to account and demanding evidence

I can't agree with you there. He is incapable of winning an argument without relying on the Off switch. Every time callers make strong points against him, JOB cuts them off, yet he delights in implying that anyone who disagrees with him is stupid. Easy to 'win' if you can mute your opponent.

As an avid Remainer. I think he has done great harm to the Remain cause. He belittles and sneers at Leavers, while making no attempt to understand their point of view. All he cares about is showcasing how clever he thinks he is.

Yes, I agree I can't imagine why people think he's good.

He just cuts off anyone who is making good points.

It's disappointing because it would be genuinely interesting and worth listening to, if radio could be an intelligent medium.

James O'B should be intelligent enough to have a nuanced, complex discussion with well-informed members of the public.

But he can't. He cuts them off as soon as they start winning. Whenever I hear him, he sounds like just a slightly less stupid shock jock really

His book is called How to be Right

And thats what he wants to always be. Maybe slightly worrying for the TRAs as he seems to think the wind may now be blowing the opposite way!

And great point *WeWant re no sexuality independent of men - makes a lot of sense

Even the most woke leftie who considers themselves to be right on eventually manages to offend and fall foul of the TRAs and then they get piled on on social media and the scales gradually fall from their eyes.

It’s impossible not to say something to cause outrage no matter how hard they try not to.

Wewantjustice, that was such an excellent explanation of how and why this bizarre cotton ceiling concept took hold. They were holding meetings on how to "break through the cotton ceiling" I.e getting into lesbians' underwear and it was so bizzare because they really couldn't seem to fathom that all their efforts would be in vain because they just weren't fanciable to lesbians. That's when it started to look a bit more sinister and rapey but fundamentally they wouldn't be able to force a lesbian to be attracted to them, the best they could hope for was a pity fuck, which is still rapey of them, not to mention the inherent homophobia.
But they think the same of heterosexual women too. Many men talk about "game" and about how having good game gets women into bed, seemingly without realizing that women actually have a sexuality of their own and their own preferences about what they find attractive and so on and that all the game in the world isn't going to work if the woman simply doesn't fancy you

I actually do believe it’s possible to ‘game’ as these people exist but also agree you can’t completely turn the tide.

Game or not I’m not going to ever get together with someone with a dick

Sorry if this has come out wrong when I agree with you. I don’t think lesbians or gay men can be ‘turned’ no matter and I know this for the opposite reason. Hate it when everyone talks about the spectrum. Perhaps for some. And whilst I understand the concept and agree it exists many people are right at the furthest end of either and there is no ambiguity

Paris Lee's in second sentence during that interview: "I found it very validating"
It's all about validation. Always. I'm becoming irrationally irritated by that word.

Annoys me even more than misplaced apostrophes.

Thank you We want and Temporary. You have both explained so clearly why lesbians are being treated so poorly. It didn't make sense to me and now I understand much better. Still horrified but once we know the reason we can start pushing back in a more focused way.

Thank you for your explanation of the Cotton Ceiling, WeWantJustice. I had never seen it like that, because of course I have never doubted that we women have our own sexuality or that lesbians exist.

FFS. The entitlement of some men never ceases to outrage me. It comforts me a little to know what dreary sex lives they must have. Because being fully aware of the humanity of your partner is the baseline for a fulfilling sex life.

'But society doesn't really believe that female homosexuality exists.'

That's an excellent way to put it, and one that might be useful for getting through to people.
A lot of people know the factoid that lesbianism was never made illegal because Queen Victoria didn't believe lesbians really existed. This is kind of a different result of the same thing...