Paris Lees and Pantene?

[MrsSnippyPants]

Seriously Procter & Gamble? Is this a joke?

finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/face-pantene-trans-rights-campaigner-172900717.html?guccounter=1

Pantene helps male pattern hair loss? This is brilliant news.

Mine's falling out (bloody menopause) and, whilst it's not male pattern hair loss, still, if it works for Paris I'm SURE it'll be just the very dab for me.

I don't really mind people with nice swishy hair advertising crap hair products.

I suspect Lees wouldn't be seen dead actually using such cheap shampoo - Pantene is what my notoriously cheap ex buys our dds to use when they stay with him - it's a supermarket level shampoo, which is fine but hardly an exciting campaign.

Not so keen on the idea that flouncy hair is a female marker. I dated lots of men in the 80s who had gorgeous long hair, & are mostly balding now. I also had flowing, glossy locks. This had nothing to do with our sex - we were all just young, pretty, & hairy!

Long, shiny hair is nice. It's not a marker of being a woman, though.

I don't like Paris Lees as she is a terrible writer and such a lefty right on Corbyn fan.

I've never bought Pantene and this would not make me change my mind.

However I think you are being unfair about the it was a key signifier that she was female when she was going through her transition as a teen remark.

She isn't saying long hair made her a woman or that women can't have short hair. Yes, some boys and young men have long hair, and the numbers vary from time to time, but it is always a minority. I don't think she meant much more by it than it's more likely that a person with long hair will be a girl and will be seen as a girl and that was helpful for her.

- Pringles

I’m all for sticking up for my principles but that’s like boycotting oxygen.

I don't think she meant much more by it than it's more likely that a person with long hair will be a girl and will be seen as a girl and that was helpful for her
The point just whizzed over your head then, because we women have been campaigning for donkeys about stupid stereotypes like "a person with long hair will be a girl"

If I gave a stuff about such things, or if I had hang ups about my short hair I would not be very happy that PL came along and told me I'm not women.

How is that helpful? It doesn't even help r mck who has short hair

Exactly. No wonder this generation is confused with nonsense like that spouted. Almost every single girl in my son's 6th form has the obligatory long tresses. The only one who doesn't, he says, is an LGBT one. He's not sure what's she's defining herself as currently.

The point just whizzed over your head then, because we women have been campaigning for donkeys about stupid stereotypes like "a person with long hair will be a girl"

No the point did not just whizz over my head. I don't think she meant anything more than because of what you call "stupid sterotypes" and what others would call cultural markers that that cultural marker was helpful to her personally at that time.

Back in the seventies, Pantene was pronounced “Panteen” and was regarded as cheap stinky muck. My father was the only person who used it in our house. So I don’t regard Paris Lees as at all inappropriate as an ambassador!

If I gave a stuff about such things, or if I had hang ups about my short hair I would not be very happy that PL came along and told me I'm not women

Well she isn't , is she? Honestly you really are twisting what she said to come to that conclusion.

Lass so are you saying the Jason upthread is actually a woman because of his 'cultural market' of having long hair?

Bet that's news to him.

*marker

Lassso are you saying the Jason upthread is actually a woman because of his 'cultural market' of having long hair?

Bet that's news to him

Please stop making things up. I said nothing of the kind.

What I said was I took that comment by Paris Lees to mean nothing more than in her early days of transition having long hair helped her to be seen as a girl. Neither she nor I are saying long hair means you are a woman but carry on twisting what I said. Talk about points whooshing by

People with long hair are more than likely to be girls (you general you) might not like that but are you denying that as a fact? Ergo on a casual glance at the young Paris Lees her having long hair probably helped her pass.

it's equating long hair with being female. Being female is nothing to do with hair and everything to do with biology which Paris can't change, try as Paris might. It is reinforcing the stereotype (which you've rebranded as a cultural marker) to signify femaleness.

If Paris had transitioned in the 1980s do you think having long hair would have helped Paris 'pass' (or deceive, more honestly)? No. Because long hair wasn't the thing for girls in the 80s.

Hair style does not make a woman a woman.

I will condemn Proctor & Gamble for using Paris Lees to sell shampoo to women.

I won't condemn women for using affordable hair products.

it's equating long hair with being female

No it isn't- beyond that someone with long hair is more likely to be a girl than a boy so anyone looking at Lees might think she was a girl. It is not saying only women can have long hair or having long means you are a woman.

Hair style does not make a woman a woman I didn't say it did.

If Paris had transitioned in the 1980s do you think having long hair would have helped Paris 'pass' (or deceive, more honestly)? No. Because long hair wasn't the thing for girls in the 80s

Well that's nonsense.

80's perms weren't gender binary.

It's still not enough for me to think Pantene is a shampoo and not a sanitary towel.

Ha, thought this was only me

80's perms weren't gender binary

Did I say they were? I was responding to the utter nonsense that long hair wasn't the thing for girls in the 80s.

I get that most of you don't like Paris Lees but I honestly don't think she meant anything more than having long hair meant it was more likely people would see her as a girl than a boy. She isn't saying long her made her a girl- it simply helped her to pass as one.

Most trendy women had short hair in the 80s, look at the pictures of Princess Diana, think about Linda Evangelista, Annie Lennox etc. My psychobilly friends had long hair with quiffs and there were the metal heads with permed mullets but generally short hair was cool.

Lass I was thinking more of Kevin Keegan to be honest.

Why is Paris Lees called Paris, a man’s name? If I was going to reinvent myself as a man I would choose a man’s name, not stick to a woman’s.

Well there's Paris Hilton.

But yes the first one I think of is whinging namby-pamby Iliad Paris.

Does Pantene do men’s shampoo - like the ones you see in the black bottles?

Paris (of Troy) was a boy.

I’d totally give up Pringles for Jason Momoa.