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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Dearest MNHQ, please please please would you...

245 replies

ScottishDoll · 05/06/2019 16:54

change the details section here from Gender to SEX since that is what is actually being asked. Sex matters.

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Gender

Date of birth

OP posts:
Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 10:16

Can I just ask, why are you all so bothered? Sex and gender can be used interchangeably as far as I'm concerned. You either have a boy or a girl, why is that so hard?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/06/2019 10:21

Sex and gender can be used interchangeably as far as I'm concerned

Then you do not understand what either of those words mean

Knife and fork can be used interchangeably as far as I’m concerned. Now I’m going to carve a chicken with this fork

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/06/2019 10:23

And an interesting fudge from Mumsnet. Better than nothing and allows those of us who would choose to entrust MNHQ with our personal data to be accurate

CassianAndor · 27/06/2019 10:23

PInkyy* maybe have a little browse around the FWR board?

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 10:26

@BernardBlacksWineIcelolly yes I do. But if your sex is male, then so is your gender. So why all the bother.

EweSurname · 27/06/2019 10:27

I think it's a good fudge. I'd prefer "sex" for clarity's sake but this allows everyone to answer it how they see fit.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/06/2019 10:30

if your sex is male, then so is your gender

Really?

What are the defining characteristics of the male gender? Do all people with penises demonstrate those characteristics? Do no people with vulvas demonstrate them?

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 10:33

@BernardBlacksWineIcelolly a man is a man. He can be masculine or feminine, but he's still a man.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/06/2019 10:34

What does being masculine mean? How would I know if someone was masculine? How would you define it?

EweSurname · 27/06/2019 10:36

What do you mean by gender pinkyyy?

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 10:36

@BernardBlacksWineIcelolly oh I can't be bothered to have this debate today. You go along thinking people can 'identify' as whatever they want. The world will be a horrible place to live before too long.

Sunkisses · 27/06/2019 10:42

Thank you @EstherMumsnet. I agree that it is important to be clear, and sex is the correct term. 'Gender' is a deeply unhelpful and confusing word. At least everyone is clear what we mean when we use the scientifically correct term

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/06/2019 10:46

I think you may have misunderstood me Pinkyy

People can change their gender all the time (what with it being a regressive social construct). They can’t change their sex though-hence the importance of differentiating between the two

Sorry, you got caught in the crosshairs of my pendantry!

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 10:48

@BernardBlacksWineIcelolly Can you just explain to me how someone changes their gender? Genuine question, not meant with ill will.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/06/2019 10:58

Sure

Depends what you define as masculine and feminine

If we say ‘masculine people wear trousers and are assertive, feminine people wear skirts and are passive’

Well, I’m wearing jeans today and throwing my weight around at work as always....so what does that make me?

In the 18th century men wore stockings and high heels-were they really women?

Have whatever gender ID you like, but be aware that it tells you nothing about what sex you are Smile

EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/06/2019 11:06

Pinky, if I said that ‘gender’ was a synonym for ‘old-fashioned sex role stereotypes’ would you agree?

usernamepinched · 27/06/2019 11:22

I don't think this is a good move, Mumsnet. What are we scared of by choosing to define our children by their biological sex, not how they confirm or not to stereotypes? Disappointed.

usernamepinched · 27/06/2019 11:22

Conform, not confirm!

EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/06/2019 11:49

We've made some changes to the form so that it reads, 'My child is a...' and the options are, 'boy', 'girl'.

It’s an improvement but it’s still a fudge. What scares you about using ‘sex’, MichaelMumsnet?

CassianAndor · 27/06/2019 11:50

It's in effect self ID, isn't it? Which is why I would like to know what @MNHQ does with this information.

joystir59 · 27/06/2019 11:57

Me too

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 12:10

@BernardBlacksWineIcelolly that's confusing. So if I am stereotypically masculine one day, my gender ID becomes male? And then if I'm feminine the next, it's female?

@EmpressLesbianInChair I can't say that I would to be honest.

CassianAndor · 27/06/2019 12:20

you'd be non-binary, then, Pinkyy.

It's all bullshit.

CassianAndor · 27/06/2019 12:20

so what do you think 'gender' is, *Pinkyy? Other than a synonym for sex?

willywillywillywilly · 27/06/2019 12:21

I just filled in my local council survey inspired by the above, just so I could cross out gender and put sex! However, I was thwarted Angry. Their question says "Do you consider yourself to be..." Male, Female, SOmething else, Prefer not to say.

Ugh. Short of drawing an eye-roll emoji on it I couldn't work out how to do anything about it. I consider myself female, what with being a woman and all Confused.

As it happens, the survey is one where the sex of respondents doesn't matter but ARGH. Words mean things Angry