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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Dearest MNHQ, please please please would you...

245 replies

ScottishDoll · 05/06/2019 16:54

change the details section here from Gender to SEX since that is what is actually being asked. Sex matters.

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OP posts:
DuchessSybilVimes · 27/06/2019 21:12

Realists.

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 21:15

Obviously not. I imagine that they're usually liberal leftists?

EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/06/2019 21:27

Pinkyy, what do you think gender is?

I’d say that woman is a word for an adult human female, which is an adult human with XX chromosomes & a vulva.

Pinkyyy · 27/06/2019 21:36

@EmpressLesbianInChair I believe that gender is a synonym for sex. However, I've realised I could be alone in that thought so I'm probably wrong.

CassianAndor · 27/06/2019 21:46

Sex - male/female, ie biological reproductive class, same as all mammals

Gender - masculine/feminine, ie the role society places on your due to your sex, your reproductive potential.

Many feminists do not believe in gender as they believe that gender is used to keep women in their place, ie in the kitchen. So I would say I have a sex, as all humans do, but not a gender as I don’t believe in sex-based roles.

(I also don’t believe men can be feminist, but they can and should be allies.)

DpWm · 27/06/2019 21:48

Liberal leftists are usually of the gender ideology belief camp.
They often try to frame feminists who believe in biology not gender aka gender critical feminists, as right wingers. Most GC feminists are anything but right wing.

DpWm · 27/06/2019 21:59

I believe that gender is a synonym for sex
I'd like it to be a synonym for sex too. But it isn't anymore, and we're up against a tide of people who believe gender means something else. Some sort of indescribable essence of sense of self that leads to men can be women and women can be men. (It all basically boils down to sexist stereotypes).

Most ppl on this board see biological sex alone as the only necessary marker, and that gender should be rejected entirely because gender how it's used now just means personality. There are over 50 genders apparently fgs.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 22:08

Yes. PLEASE

It's sex, not gender

martinidry · 27/06/2019 23:32

Please correct this error, MNHQ. Thank you.

PickledGulag · 28/06/2019 00:32

I have borrowed the following from the very wonderful Women and Girls in Scotland in the hope it illustrates the importance of words to MNHQ. The bold type is my addition.

wgscotland.org.uk/what-we-stand-for/

We believe that women and girls still need to be protected on the basis of sex, as we suffer exploitation, discrimination, inequality, and injustice due to our reproductive sex, and indeed this is recognised in current UK equality legislation. As such, we are undertaking a process of reviewing laws, policies and proposals in order to identify where the needs of women and girls are not being considered or met, and we are working to address where this is the case.

We also believe that women and girls should be able to organise as a sex class in order to address the oppression we face as a protected class. We believe that female people should not be the only class of people that cannot organise around the axis of our oppression – i.e. sex – and as such, our group is part of the women’s movement campaigning for the liberation of female people from our subjugation under patriarchy.

We of course welcome allies in this endeavour, but we feel it is of the utmost importance that women know that we do not have to be the one liberation movement that centres all people, not least because this notion itself is rooted in a patriarchal conception of womanhood that functions to pressure women to put the needs of others ahead of our own. That women and girls are the only oppressed class of people expected to set aside our own liberation movement and instead fight for the equality of all people, only serves to demonstrate how crucial the women’s liberation movement is.

We also reject any notion that the erasure of females as a class of people could ever be a tool of inclusivity. We cannot address what we cannot recognise. If we cannot recognise sex, we cannot address sexism or indeed the political significance of females as a sex class. Female people will always have shared interests due to our reproductive sex, and we should be able to acknowledge and name ourselves like other classes of people can. In other words, we both need and deserve recognition as a sex class; we should not be dehumanised and referred to by our bodily functions; we should not be prevented from recognising, naming and addressing the basis of our oppression; and we certainly should not be prevented from defining ourselves in public, or from organising as a class politically.

No-one’s personal experiences, beliefs or identities change what women and girls face and why, and nor do they remove the need to address it. As such, we consider the erasure of female people in language and the refusal to recognise us as a class, as deeply misguided and something which results in profound injustice and harm to women and girls. No efforts in regards to inclusion should ever come at the cost of erasing people in this way, and where they do it should be understood that those efforts have failed.

Hadenough4 · 28/06/2019 00:36

I agree. The correct term is sex, not gender.

SimplySteveRedux · 28/06/2019 01:00

+1 @MNHQ

jamrollyolly · 28/06/2019 07:03

Ru

Supergranscape · 28/06/2019 07:29

I agree it should be sex not gender.

jamrollyolly · 28/06/2019 09:20

So sorry, just catching up see I must have pocket posted at 7 this morning. Well that's a first!

Sex not gender, of course!

DpWm · 29/06/2019 08:37

jamrolly I saw that and thought you were asking
Are you?
In a cool way. Grin

2BthatUnnoticed · 18/09/2019 03:44

This is an old thread, but does anyone know the reason for declining to use “sex”? Was it because the term sounds indelicate to some (?) or to appease anti-feminists or some other reason?

2BthatUnnoticed · 18/09/2019 04:02

(I noticed this section of MN refers to “gender equality” rather than “equality of the sexes” which seems a similar question)

BatShite · 18/09/2019 17:39

This is an old thread, but does anyone know the reason for declining to use “sex”?

No idea, seems a weird decision to me to..well change it to what they did instead of just using accurate wording. Probably scared of backlash from TRAs if they dare use the word sex. Seems HQ want to appease them these days, for some reason Hmm

(I noticed this section of MN refers to “gender equality” rather than “equality of the sexes” which seems a similar question)

Yup. I wonder what that can be changed to to please MRAs..hmm

Ringdonna · 18/09/2019 17:57

Don’t think it is going to change.

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