Why does Mumsnet listen to outsiders, rather than just Mumsnet users?

[loveyouradvice]

The fact that the reporting on this board is openly led by 'members' who never post, never participate on MN, merely stalk the boards to police women talking here because of some self appointed sense of superiority and then brag about this on Twitter is in itself extremely creepy. On what other MN board are men permitted to stalk and police women?

Having read this on another board, I realise how much this worries me... why would Mumsnet listen to "anonymous" sources, rather than reports from their users? I am sure the Mumsnet community is very powerful at calling out the unacceptable... why Mumsnet do you listen to strangers?

why would Mumsnet listen to "anonymous" sources, rather than reports from their users

Is it zero sum? Can't they listen to both and, ultimately, isn't the team that reads the reports and chooses how to act upon them (if at all) making the decisions?

The forum is public, therefore members of the public should be entitled to report what they perceive as transgressions. If I see a group meeting in a public park and they are using what I perceive as hate speech, aren't I entitled to inform the proper authorities?

I'm not sure what your post means?
Mumsnet is post moderated as far as I know meaning that it isn't moderated and things only get deleted if they break talk guidelines and somebody has reported it.
The fact that the reporting on this board is openly led by 'members' who never post, never participate on MN
How on earth would you know who was reporting posts anyway? It's not "openly led by members who never post" at all as you'd have no way of knowing.
Sounds like some badly written scaremongering conspiracy theory to me.

Cross posted with Gronky - yes, what Gronky said as well

They do it because they're worried about lawsuits.

I agree though that it's very creepy that a group of men online like to devote so much of their time to getting women here shut down. And yes we know they do thanks to Twitter.

And yes we know they do thanks to Twitter

Even if they did report things, that doesn't mean it will automatically get taken down.
You report a post, MN "takes a look" and if it does break talk guidelines, it goes poof.
Like it always has done if it breaks talk guidelines. It's not a new thing.
If they think it's fine to stand, then it stands.
So in other words, why does it matter who the report is coming from?
You report to the correct channel, they take a look, and if there's nothing there worth bothering about they won't act on the report.

Many posts that have been removed have also been reinstated, along with some users.

The park analogy doesn't work, this isn't a public park. A forum is not a shared space in the same way a park is.
This space exists for a specific purpose. You don't have to pass through here on your way to work. you aren't on your way to the playground with your kids.

I can't think of another forum where anyone can dictate policy, or where people watch the users, or goad them so they can collect screen shots to post elsewhere. And there aren't many forums where the users have to be on constant guard against attempts at doxxing.

There's something about Mumsnet that drives a lot of men/men's rights activists/transactivists crazy. It's probably all those unsupervised women's opinions.

IMO Mumsnet made a big mistake in giving into trans rights activists via twitter (like Shon Faye) and introducing extra-speshul strict guidelines for trans people - when no special guidelines for any other minority or protected group exist, or are enforced so fiercely. There's a blanket "you may not be racist, disablist etc etc - but I've seen horrific racism allowed to stand on the main boards.

At one point, they were taking reports via twitter, but I think they've stopped doing that now - HQ seems to ignore the griping from TRAs on their twitter feed now.

But I agree, I think they are scared of lawsuits, and that's not without cause - since the lawyer-who-shall-not-be-named's actions against them.

So on the one hand, I hate the extra censorship women here have discussing their rights, but on the other, I can see that MNHQ are probably under incredible pressure to shut down the debate altogether.

There's a blanket "you may not be racist, disablist etc etc - but I've seen horrific racism allowed to stand on the main boards

Well you should be reporting it then - they've always been quick to delete posts like that if I've ever seen them and reported them.
If nobody reports them then they won't know about them.

I do report it, like I said, it's allowed to stand.

The park analogy doesn't work, this isn't a public park. A forum is not a shared space in the same way a park is.

Perhaps I should have distinguished between a publicly-owned park and a private park which the public is welcome in. There can be different parts of the park dedicated to different activities but the users, through their use and in conjunction with the overarching rules set the pace for what specifically takes place.

I can't think of another forum where anyone can dictate policy

Is bringing attention to transgressions really 'dictating'?

Yup, I’ve reported racism and lots of ableism and they’re allowed to stand.

I agree that reports should only be possible from registered users, like FB etc it’s bizarre to do it the way they do. Of course men are going to mass report a feminism board and pressure mods into making decisions which are unfair to actual users. Plenty of things that don’t break guidelines are removed. It makes no sense.

Not so much dictating... coercive control.

I agree that reports should only be possible from registered users, like FB etc it’s bizarre to do it the way they do

You do require an account to file a report (unless there's something different about my computer, it asks me to log in if I press the report button).

You do require an account to file a report (unless there's something different about my computer, it asks me to log in if I press the report button)

Yes you do - I have to be logged in if I ever want to make a report too.

You do require an account to file a report

You don't. You can email MNHQ.

And you can have an account and use it simply for reporting women whose opinions you don't like.

Actually, the ableism is worse than the racism IME - especially in the special needs children/autism discussions.

There was one thread I was on (years ago) when a woman posted a really lovely thread about her gay son - and some horror posted a really homophobic comment. I reported the first post, and it was deleted - and then he repeated it. I reported it again and MNHQ said "oh, his comments are being robustly argued against on the thread, so we'll let it stand" - I was a bit

That was in the days of v light-touch moderation - which I am generally in favour of - but I think there should be consistency across the boards. It is not really fair that the women posting on FWR are held to a higher standard than the rest of the boards.

I think those of us who have been posting here years (I've been here since about 2012 posting under various names) find it particularly galling, because MNHQ had always been so steadfast in upholding women's rights, and their freedom to discuss their rights.

HQ used to be very good at banning the goady fuckers MRAs - but then the TRAs make some noise on Twitter, and suddenly there are severely restrictive guidelines - but not for every protected group - just for trans people.

And you can have an account and use it simply for reporting women whose opinions you don't like.

What is the practical alternative to this? A requirement for a certain threshold of site engagement to report would be easily sidestepped by these bogeypersons in the form of a few innocuous comments and encouraging their increased engagement here doesn't seem desirable. A removal of the ability to report at all would increase the workload further on the people who already dedicate a lot of their time to ensure the rules are followed, since they'd be having to manually check each message.

In terms of pressure upon the original message writers, they're unaware of reports which don't result in the removal of their message so, unless they're breaking the rules, it hardly seems coercive unless the complainant is actively seeking to break rules.

Actually, the ableism is worse than the racism IME

Yes, absolutely.

The rules are not equal across the board though.

(^That was to Gronky)

The rules are not equal across the board though.

Isn't that more an issue with the HQ team (is moderators the right word? I've also heard them called administrators) than who is filing reports and isn't it an issue that's more readily addressed than an unknown number of individuals filing malicious reports?

No, it's an issue with the specially introduced trans moderation rules pinned to the top of this board.

Those rules were introduced last year at the behest/pressure of TRAs (mostly via twitter) - and go way beyond the moderation rules for any other protected group.

go way beyond the moderation rules for any other protected group.

Which specific part of the rules does this? I can see that they ban some terms which transgendered individuals find offensive but, equally terms like (quoted for the sake of commentary) 'TERF' are also banned.