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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why does Mumsnet listen to outsiders, rather than just Mumsnet users?

166 replies

loveyouradvice · 03/06/2019 18:08

The fact that the reporting on this board is openly led by 'members' who never post, never participate on MN, merely stalk the boards to police women talking here because of some self appointed sense of superiority and then brag about this on Twitter is in itself extremely creepy. On what other MN board are men permitted to stalk and police women?

Having read this on another board, I realise how much this worries me... why would Mumsnet listen to "anonymous" sources, rather than reports from their users? I am sure the Mumsnet community is very powerful at calling out the unacceptable... why Mumsnet do you listen to strangers?

OP posts:
ZebrasAreBras · 06/06/2019 13:11

Quite Langcleg.

"we haven't had to formalise it on the other boards" = FWR women being held to a higher account.

"Special rules for trans discussion " with a "formalised 3 strikes system" = FWR being held to a higher standard.

Arguing black is blue, as Langcleg says, is not going to change the ^reality of that.

Justhadathought · 06/06/2019 15:23

I really find it hard to understand what gronky is writing

I think that is intentional. it is intended to be dense and legalistic in tone. It is, however, possible to be articulate and make intelligent comment without trying to alienate & scare people with your 'superiority' or cleverness.

lorit · 06/06/2019 15:32

Yy Just.

Not remotely interested in your meaning either Gronky, I don't think you're posting here in good faith, and we've heard your bollocks 24,000 times on this thread now.

Gronky · 06/06/2019 16:47

LangCleg, ZebrasAreBras , that is an interesting point (regarding black and blue), this is rather reminiscent of the blue & black/white & gold dress. I remember that the majority of comments from people were steadfastly commenting one way or the other. As time went by, more comments emerged criticising those still engaged in the debate. However, there were also people who claimed to see one set of colours but were interested in why other people saw the other colour pair. The debate was particularly interesting because there was very approximately an even divide in groups and it was difficult for both to clearly enunciate why they had a certain opinion to the other. The latter group resulted in a truly edifying inquiry into how we process visual information.

In this case, I believe the source of the difference of opinion comes down to fine parsing vs holistic analysis. My opinion that these rules are not specific to either transphobia or this section is based upon taking both your cited statement and:

We’ll be introducing a three strikes system whereby users deleted more than three times in any rolling six week period will have their membership automatically suspended and we’ll then take a view as to whether they will have membership reinstated.

into account. In the case of transphobia on FWR, while the ban is automatic, it is also temporary and subject to review, while, for general cases the statement of:

in practice, three deletions would usually lead to a suspension elsewhere on site.

also means that there is a possibility of permanent banning.

littlbrowndog, lorit, that's a shame. It's an interesting co-incidence that you both found what I had to say unimportant enough to dismiss out of hand but simultaneously important enough to take the time to tell me off. Confused

Justhadathought, if you were to blindly meet me in the street and have a conversation beyond the usual daily pleasantries, you'd probably figure out that you're talking to me within a few minutes. My way of speaking/typing is the product of what could be described as 'linguistic Darwinism': I've been working in a STEM field that was mostly male dominated when I started for over 30 years. As you can imagine, I wasn't taken terribly seriously by my male colleagues, one of the criticisms they liked to pick up on was the way I communicated. Over time, I emulated them, almost to the point of parody and, when you play a role long enough, it can become a part of you. To tell the truth, on some introspective evenings, I do wonder if I've lost something personal. However, I try not to worry too much because, while it may not have been a conscious choice, it would in some way acknowledge that I'd ceded personal agency in the first place if I tried to change at this stage. I don't think I'm especially clever, I just have a different set of interests.

ZebrasAreBras · 06/06/2019 16:48

Stop flogging that horse, gronky, the poor thing's already dead.

ZebrasAreBras · 06/06/2019 16:53

And the dress was blue/black. Fact. Wink

LangCleg · 06/06/2019 17:41

God loves a trier, so they tell me. I, happily, am an atheist.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 06/06/2019 18:04

I dont think god loves a trier

Think god sits there going ‘oh for fucks sake! Again! It may have been a mistake giving them free will...and the ability to type’

Gronky · 06/06/2019 21:26

Stop flogging that horse, gronky, the poor thing's already dead.

Please don't feel under any obligation to keep responding, I fully understand if you don't wish to discuss the matter further, I'm just still interested in exploring differences in interpretation (and, ideally, getting some sort of statement from MNHQ).

And the dress was blue/black. Fact. Wink

To be honest, I didn't find discovering the actual colour of the dress terribly satisfying. The (still not fully resolved) question of why so many people thought it was white/gold is much more interesting and has opened up several lines of enquiry about how the brain works, even the attempts to put into words why an individual perceived one and not the other was more interesting to me than the answer.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 06/06/2019 21:31

I saw both

Black and blue and gold and white

I like to think its cos im well clever

But i have my suspicions that it means there is something actually wrong with me Grin

Im obviously such a fence sitter!!

ZebrasAreBras · 06/06/2019 21:50

Talking about "our perception" is how you're gaslighting us, Gronky.

You're trying to tell tell us what we're seeing and experiencing here is like when people saw the gold/white dress - ie, a trick of the light, .a trick of the brain. And you're repeating it over and over - that's why I'm responding.

And you're trying to tell us that TRAs didn't bully and harass HQ into introducing new trans guidelines to silence women here - when they did. We were there - we saw it happening.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 06/06/2019 21:57

And you're trying to tell us that TRAs didn't bully and harass HQ into introducing new trans guidelines to silence women here - when they did. We were there - we saw it happening

Yep

ZebrasAreBras · 06/06/2019 21:59

It's like calling feminists hysterical when they point out the ways women are disadvantaged in society. "You're imagining it!" they merrily say, when women talk of how their opinions, their experiences, are dismissed.

Women here can tell when they're being treated differently.

Gronky · 07/06/2019 06:37

ZebrasAreBras, terribly sorry for the confusion, thank you for making it clear. I wasn't dismissing your opinions/interpretations as somehow invalid by describing them as such, I'm just differentiating them from object, measurable fact.

And you're trying to tell us that TRAs didn't bully and harass HQ into introducing new trans guidelines to silence women here

When did I say that?

Gronky · 07/06/2019 06:39

I just wanted to add, as I pressed post message, I realised that it might be worth expanding 'confusion' to 'confusion caused by me'.

lorit · 07/06/2019 06:48

Grin yep, over the years you've successfully internalised the voice of old, patronising and rude male academics alright. Well done!

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