Can we start an anti "nail" campaign?

[2rebecca]

As a GP who frequently washes her hands, allotment owner and instrument player I really hate the trend for women to have immaculate nails that cost a fortune, scratch people and mean women can't do anything useful. Where t f did this horrible trend come from and how do we give women back the use of their wonderful hands?

Well partly true. Men's "grooming" is worth about a tenth of the women's beauty market and the majority of products in it are used by both sexes. Shaving appears to be one of the biggest sectors but I can't find actual figures for it.

"The global male grooming products market reached a value of US$ 57.7 Billion in 2017. The market value is further expected to reach US$ 78.6 Billion by 2023, exhibiting a CAGR of 5.3% during 2017-2023.

Till the last few decades, male grooming products were primarily limited to shaving creams, deodorants, after shave colognes and shampoos. In recent times, however, several male grooming products have been designed and developed which include moisturisers, facial creams, bronzers, concealers, serums, face masks as well as a number of anti-ageing products."

The women's beauty market is worth USD 445 billion, so exponentially bigger.

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WovamZT25IQJ:www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2017/05/18/self-made-women-wealth-beauty-gold-mine/+&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WovamZT25IQJ:www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2017/05/18/self-made-women-wealth-beauty-gold-mine/+&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d

Here's an analsyis of the women's market. They're now targeting women in developing countries. Absolutely no social pressures though. If women there start wearing make up and painting their nails regularly it's because of their choices, nothing to do with a massive marketing effort underway:

"Global Women Cosmetics Market witnessed a moderate growth as United States, Japan and the United Kingdom leads the women cosmetics market on account of factors like increasing spending power of women, rising GDP per capita, availability of better and new products, rising awareness of the women to adopt different products, aggressive promotional activities etc. However, the market has been spurred by the rising adoption of the cosmetics products as a daily regimen by the women of the developing countries like India, China, etc. and thereby, adding up to the revenue of Global Women Cosmetics Market."

Moreover, global women cosmetics market is also flourishing on the account of rising influx of fragrances, that not only provides a soothing fragrance but also various other benefits such as underarm whitening, which is inducing women across the globe to buy these fragrances. Women’s increasing interest in looking young is fueling the demand for skincare products that fight signs of fatigue, stress and ageing. Moreover, rise in the awareness about the women cosmetics products, along with the involvement of the celebrities to endorse brands is benefiting the women’s cosmetics market."

The business people whose job it is to engage with reality, not fantasy, also recognise the power and effectiveness of the female celebrities who promote beauty standards to women.

OP, why did you put this thread in feminism when criticising women for their choices and trying to control their behaviour is the exact opposite of feminism?
Sadly I've seen this a lot on the FWR board and I'm honestly not trying to be goady, just saying how I've seen it.
Just this thread is more blatant than others and have posters I've disagreed with in the past are saying the same thing as me lol.
Let women choose how to think.
It's all I've ever said.

Worth about a seventh of the women's beauty market. My mistake. Male "beauty" products do not appear to make up much of its value.

Erythronium except alotbof things men used are classes as womens.

False tan, eyebrow products, concealer, body moisturise such as garnier. Products that started our aimed at women, but also used by men.

But again. Are you saying that when mens beauty care is as big as womens you will then be ok with women doing it?

Why? Why do men have to do it make it acceptable for women.

The business people whose job it is to engage with reality, not fantasy, also recognise the power and effectiveness of the female celebrities who promote beauty standards to women.

Why do you think attractive sports stars are in Gillette adverts? Or Chris Hemsworth advertises Hugo Boss?

"But again. Are you saying that when mens beauty care is as big as womens you will then be ok with women doing it?"

Have you actually followed the thread? People were claiming that men adorn and decorate themselves cosmetically as much as women do. Arrant nonsense, and something that can be easily disputed with the numbers I posted up there. You must have missed my post where I said I wanted the beauty industry destroyed, otherwise I can't imagine how you could draw such an erroneous conclusion that I want men to spend as much as women, from what I've said.

All my other questions have been about the social pressures on women to behave like this. Pressures that people say don't exist even though there is a clear difference in both sexes' behaviour when it comes to beauty (men don't do it). That obviously includes nail decoration.

The closest we've got to a reason is that apparently men are oppressed out of wearing lipstick and nail varnish. No social pressures there either obviously, except there must be for them to be oppressed. So confusing.

Erythronium

If I've got this right, you want to destroy patriarchal industries like the beauty industry for women, but only up to and including only what men are expected, and socially accepted, to do?

So for example, men have very little expectations of them to shave thier legs, so women should not be shaving thier legs?

On that basis, to ensure i am not collaborating with patriarchal society, I can only brush my teeth and wash my face with soap. These are the only social expectations of men. It is not expected of men to brush thier hair, because, generally, men have short hair. Even men with longer/long hair aren't expected to brush or style thier hair, they can (and do) run thier fingers through thier hair and go. So the whole hair beauty industry should be detroyed.

Someone posted on another thread about the damage boys and young men do to themselves through use of steroids and other things.

Tbh, I don't want to see an increase in men's beauty industry, ideally there would be a decrease in the women's one.

We don't need more young people (or old) harming themselves in the quest for beauty,perfection,ideal man/woman.

Although here's another question. If men are oppressed out of wearing lipstick and nail varnish and being decorative, what's the reason for that? Why are women allowed to be the decorated sex whilst men aren't?

"On that basis, to ensure i am not collaborating with patriarchal society, I can only brush my teeth and wash my face with soap."

Um, you can do what you like. I've already said that every woman has to negotiate her own path through the patriarchy and shouldn't be criticised for it. We all face the same pressures.

On a feminism board I would expect women to be interested in the differences between the behaviour of the sexes and particular requirements that exist for women that don't exist in the same way for men. And want to analyse them.

@Erythronium I assume because most of these things are "feminine" and it's still not widely socially acceptable for men to be feminine.

People were claiming that men adorn and decorate themselves cosmetically as much as women do. Arrant nonsense, and something that can be easily disputed with the numbers I posted up there. You must have missed my post where I said I wanted the beauty industry destroyed, otherwise I can't imagine how you could draw such an erroneous conclusion that I want men to spend as much as women, from what I've said.

No. People said some men do as much as women. I said my Male friends and several Male co workers do more than women. No one said men generally do more the women

Maybe you need to read the thread.

The closest we've got to a reason is that apparently men are oppressed out of wearing lipstick and nail varnish. No social pressures there either obviously, except there must be for them to be oppressed. So confusing.

No again, it was put forward that the patriachy has distinct view of what it is to be man and that could be one possible reason.

But as some who thinks they are so clued up in feminism, you dont think patriachy is bad for men. People disagreed.

You keep posting points. People answer. You then come back and miss quote

On a feminism board I would expect women to be interested in the differences between the behaviour of the sexes and particular requirements that exist for women that don't exist in the same way for men. And want to analyse them.

Except this thread wasnt about that.

I was about wanting to ban nail extensions because women become lose all ability to do anything. They hold women back. Then there was the derogatory comments about women who do and the whole pile of bullshit about the fact that women feel they must get their nails done. Except they dont.

It wasnt about why women do where them and men dont and analysing.

It was about taking the choice away because th OP doesnt like them and her job isnt compatible with them.

And girls and young women are led to believe they're not womaning properly/ attractive etc if they don't like to paint their nails

Sez who? I'm womanning fine thank you with my unpainted and un-cared for nails.

Except this thread wasnt about that.

*It was about wanting to ban nail extensions because women become lose all ability to do anything. They hold women back. Then there was the derogatory comments about women who do and the whole pile of bullshit about the fact that women feel they must get their nails done. Except they dont. It wasnt about why women do where them and men dont and analysing. It was about taking the choice away because th OP doesnt like them and her job isnt compatible with them.

Exactly

Bold fail ffs

Ah hold, you do need to read the thread. I actually quoted the poster I was responding to

But men are just as prone to artifice and adornment. Some go as far as to havecosmetic surgery just as women do. Perhaps the extent tends to be slightly lesser but it’s not a predominantly female thingtodo.

Well "slightly lesser" might be a get out, but claiming that beauty practices aren't predominantly female and men are just as prone to them is once again, arrant nonsense. The figures prove it.

No again, it was put forward that the patriachy has distinct view of what it is to be man and that could be one possible reason.

Doesn't it just? And look what we end up with - women with false painted long nails, whilst men escape the requirement to be decorative almost completely. We finally got there.

You can admit that men are complying with the patriarchy by not painting their nails, but somehow it's completely verboten to think that women might also be complying with the patriarchy by decorating theirs.

It was about taking the choice away because the OP doesnt like them and her job isnt compatible with them

It was indeed. The fact they are incompatible with her job was a wholly irrelevant point.

And of course ultra feminist told me I have horrible nails and ageing skin!

It was about wanting to ban nail extensions

Where was the ban mentioned. The OP said she wanted a campaign against the trend for false, decorated nails.

@Erythronium I assume because most of these things are "feminine" and it's still not widely socially acceptable for men to be feminine.

Those social pressures that apparently don't exist, just keep appearing.

Sez who? I'm womanning fine thank you with my unpainted and un-cared for nails.

Well yes me too lime. Just peer pressure. But in reality it's part of the bigger picture of shaving, make up etc performing femininity. Nails are just an aspect of it.

Those social pressures that apparently don't exist, just keep appearing.

I never said though and my answer was from my point of view.

But then again, it sounded like someone might've decided to get gel nails based on my comments so I'd better just walk away slowly..

Where was the ban mentioned. The OP said she wanted a campaign against the trend for false, decorated nails

The OP asked Can "we" (whoever "we" might be ) start an anti- nail campaign

Anti anything campaigns are started for the purposes of achieving a ban or making the activity so socially unacceptable it might as well be banned.

Well "slightly lesser" might be a get out, but claiming that beauty practices aren't predominantly female and men are just as prone to them is once again, arrant nonsense. The figures prove it.

Exactly. To a lesser extent. And given lots of men use products aimed at women, cause they are better. The figures are skewed a bit.

Doesn't it just? And look what we end up with - women with false painted long nails, whilst men escape the requirement to be decorative almost completely.

And that's the worst bit of patriachy being bad for men, because it ends up with some women choosing to do their nails?

You can admit that men are complying with the patriarchy by not painting their nails, but somehow it's completely verboten to think that women might also be complying with the patriarchy by decorating theirs

No I said there maybe be plenty of men who would paint their nails but dont because the patriachy gives them a view of what they are allowed to do and not allowed to do. I also said that nails are good example of how things were dictated to women in the past but not now. Because just as many (if not more) women on this very thread are telling you they dont do their nails and their lives arent impacted one bit. So great, women used to feel they had to. But now they can choose to and not feel judged if they dont. But then it turns out, they will be judged if they do, by some women.

Nails are one of the few areas that I dont believe women are pressured into doing, not any more.

OP wants to campaign against false nails. What's the final endgame there. Less women do it? 10% 5%.

She wants them gone.