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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A pleasant surprise

538 replies

APleasantSurprise · 01/06/2019 11:15

NC for this as very outing.

I came across a number of Tweets from a user whose profile described him as a serving officer with the Met. This is the complaint I sent yesterday:

Jon Killen, a emergency response officer in the MPS and LGBT+ officer, is issuing Tweets that I consider misogynist. His Twitter account (@LDNResponseCop) clearly identifies him professionally, so he cannot argue that he's only offering personal opinions. I cannot think his social media presence is doing anything good for the Met. It seems highly unprofessional. Certainly I would have less confidence were I involved in an incident and had to deal with Jon Killen than I would in a generic officer. Please look at what he's saying - and the response from many LGBT Twitter users who find his Tweets offensive. The police must be seen to be impartial.

I got a call from an inspector this morning. He'd gone through the officer's Tweets and agreed with me. He said it wasn't a disciplinary matter as there were no personally offensive Tweets but that the Tweets definitely overstepped the bounds of what a serving police officer should be saying on social media. A conversation was in order and he would be talking to the officer soon.

Only a small step, but I was pleased the Met seems to have taken it seriously.

OP posts:
GassyAss · 04/06/2019 18:38

Zoecb you've not answered my question about feminists physically attacking transwomen. Do you have any examples to back up your claim? Or is it just heresay?

JackyHolyoake · 04/06/2019 18:38

People have a right to reject the word queer, lots of gay men of a certain generation can’t get on board with it

How very interesting that you exclude lesbians here.

Treefloof · 04/06/2019 18:40

Trying to apply objective terms and measures to parts of identity which are so subjective and alive is like trying to measure the length of a piece of string with litmus paper. You can’t quantify the unquantifiable
Huh so are we back around to a man is whatever he says he is?
Are you admitting then that there is no way to define woman without resorting to the stereotypes that transwomen appear to use?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 04/06/2019 18:40

Maybe Zoe could define 'man'?

the Jordan Peterson follower definition would be something like

assertive
organised
interested in facts
capable of greatness
brave

does this make a man Zoe? do Buck Angel and Ian Duncan Smith share these characteristics? what makes them both men?

FloralBunting · 04/06/2019 18:40

I can call queer a slur without your permission, thank you very much. The authoritarian manner of declaring what I am allowed to accept as a term is rather at odds with the all loving loosey goosey be kind shit, but you pomo types do love an internal contradiction.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2019 18:42

Play fair Bernard. Despit ebeing something of an expert she hasn't a clue what Lesbians on Chairs are. How is she to know Buck Angel or Ian Duncan Smith?

LangCleg · 04/06/2019 18:42

I literally have parts of my degree in a) language

Colourless green ideas sleep furiously?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2019 18:42

And you Floral Our Zoe already said she hasn't the foggiest about the acronyms. POMO is just a Pom Bear spelled wrong!

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/06/2019 18:45

You don’t get to call it a slur

I’ll call it whatever the fuck I want. I’ve stood in front of my lesbian friends back in the 80’s when they didn’t actually have rights, as people abused and threatened them with that slur. So you can back off with ordering me about.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2019 18:45

I literally have parts of my degree in a) language or b) nonsense

Answers on a postcard please... that's a small rectangle of card, stamp (small sticky square with queen's head on it) and destination address on one side, chirpy message to be included on the other, unless you choose a picture postacrd (touristy thing of yesteryear) when all 3 are on the same side due to space restrictions.

ZebrasAreBras · 04/06/2019 18:47

Zoe, do you subscribe to Queer Theory?

ZebrasAreBras · 04/06/2019 18:48

I’m immensely proud of my thoughtful, informed, balanced, respectful and supportive feminist education

Your brand of feminism centres males. Your branch of feminism enables Danielle Muscato to say to women: "Some women have penises, and if you're bothered by that you can suck my dick."

It also enables beardy lefty men to abuse women, call them cunts, have them fired, have them punched, have them expelled from political parties. Just because those women don't believe men can be women.

It's not any brand of feminism I want to be part of. I'll stick with women-centred radical feminism thanks.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2019 18:48

Or String Theory?

Sorry... Smile

ZebrasAreBras · 04/06/2019 18:50

Grin I prefer String Theory myself, but I'm married to a physics graduate so...

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 04/06/2019 18:51

to be fair, I spent ages when I first frequented the board wondering why everyone was talking about permanent open market options (..pomo)

this is one of the books I took on holiday with me last week. I approached it with trepidation, but the writer clearly thinks post modernism is absolute bollocks and is pleasingly catty throughout.

A pleasant surprise
Zoecb · 04/06/2019 18:53

Someone else brought up incels... btw any mention of Jordan Peterson is a waste of oxygen so him and his odious views can sod right off.

What’s my most important womanly identity facet that I can even attempt to try to define? Maybe a sense of undefinable kinship with other women. A spiritual rapport of sorts, if you’d like it in crazy mystic terms...

In all honesty trying to justify my womanhood to you comes under the banner of “taking homework assignments from strangers” and my days of writing essays for free (or at great personal expense in the case of being a student) are far behind me I’m afraid. By all means just believe the shortcut reductive answer, it’s a lot more convenient than the nuance of not-already-laid-out-for-you-in-short-words reality.

I’d rather accept people for who they are without demanding they account to me for every atom of their existence. They don’t need my approval to confirm their existence, they know who they are. It’s just nice to have allies who love and accept you and I am proud to be one of them.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 04/06/2019 18:56

Maybe a sense of undefinable kinship with other women.

actual lol in my kitchen

Grin

from the person who called mumsnet 4chan for housewives

truly the sense of kinship we share is mystical and magnificent

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 18:56

Insisting that transwomen are not women is the evidence of hate

For goodness sake! Transwomen are not women This is a fact. It is based on biological evidence - long accepted and held to be true the world over. Transgenderism has got nothing to do with biological sex.
Biological sex exists. Identity is ephemeral - no matter how meaningful to the individual.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 04/06/2019 18:58

But Zoe can't define what 'woman' means because it's reductive and gets in the way of her spiritual rapport just. so in her world men can be women, dogs can be cats, knives can be forks. they just have to have a certain forkiness about them

Zoecb · 04/06/2019 18:58

My intersectional feminism centres women, all of us. And aha! Yes I love postmodernism. But then I get how you’d hate something about how the social perception of reality is fluid and slippery and can’t really be described in objective terms, people get pretty scared of what they don’t understand and postmodernism is about accepting it not fearing it! This is why it’s called _phobia!

Justhadathought · 04/06/2019 19:00

But happy to report than my university (KCL) had some rather more detailed, informed and respectful discussions about such issues

Nobody wants to stop you discussing your issues. How about permitting others to do the same. Your issues are clearly quite different to many of ours here. that is why there is such antagonism.

I think you should put your considerable energy into campaigning for your own/third spaces, rather than trying to force your way into those in which you are not welcome, nor where do you belong.

Absolutepowercorrupts · 04/06/2019 19:01

Zoecb
At 17.55 you said, it's one of the brains you have.
This is fucking wonderful news, we have more than one brain!! How did you find out about this amazing phenomenon?
Let's assume I have more than one brain. Every single one of my brains does not and never will believe in the LIE that human beings can change sex.

LangCleg · 04/06/2019 19:01

Zoe can't define what 'woman' means because... colourless green ideas sleep furiously. I honestly think we've all dropped some acid and are currently experiencing a Chomskian hellscape of a trip!

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/06/2019 19:01

In all honesty trying to justify my womanhood

No. You were asked to define the word woman. Not justify your womanhood. Didn’t you study English language?????

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2019 19:01

I’d rather accept people for who they are without demanding they account to me for every atom of their existence.

Ooh! Say that in the voice of your favourite Jane Austen character and it sounds positiley dreamy... less so as a Bronte character, not at all as a Lawrence female!

Lizzy Bennet
Shirley
Bathsheba