Wagamama and gender neutral toilets

[TulipsTulipsTulips]

40% of wagamama’s toilets will be gender neutral by September. The last thing I want to do when I go out for a meal is share the facilities with men. We are different and deserve privacy! How have women’s interests become such a low priority?

And what conclusion are we to draw from this?

Someone had been drinking the sugar free syrups and munching the macaroons

But the first article is about a man filming a woman in a single sex women's toilet.

And making toilets mixed sex is going to make it even easier for men to film women under/over cubicles, they'll have a right to be there unchallenged unless you catch him literally red handed filming you.

In fact, in that scenario a fully enclosed individual use room would have better protected the victim's privacy since she was spied on underneath a cubical partition

In theory that should work but again mixed sex fully enclosed cubicles won't stop men hiding cameras.

The second and third are exactly the sort of vague scaremongering in the likes of the daily mail that I mentioned.

Oh ok then, yes I forgot men are a lovely bunch of lads and sexual harassment etc hardly ever happens and voyeurism is just shit women make up to scare each other. I've mentioned on fwr before how a man followed me in a practically empty swimming pool changing village, chose the cubicle next to mine and suspect he was attempting to film me as he pushed a pile of his clothes slowly under my cubicle.

Also iirc since Target in America made their changing rooms mixed sex they had lots of reported incidents of voyeurism.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html?amp

keepmyncsafe.com/target-transgender-bathroom/

Thatwouldbe since when have customers become 'guests'? 🙄😂 I love the quote from the parent in that article, saying these young men don't realise blah blah blah. These creepy perverts know exactly what they're doing. Target really won't admit they got it wrong, will they? Even with profits dropping and 'guests' being preyed on. They deserve to go bust.

making toilets mixed sex is going to make it even easier for men to film women under/over cubicles

But Wagamama aren't introducing unisex bathrooms with cubicles and I've already expressly said that I'm not in favour of those kind of unisex bathrooms. Sole-use rooms that are completely enclosed are, in my view, different - for this very reason.

The risks to women's privacy and safety posed by unisex bathrooms/changing rooms are very real. IMHO, claiming that the same problems exist with sole-use spaces undermines those arguments and gives the impression that the GC movement is more interested in creating obstacles for trans individuals than they are in genuinely protecting women.

I've mentioned on fwr before how a man followed me in a practically empty swimming pool changing village, chose the cubicle next to mine and suspect he was attempting to film me as he pushed a pile of his clothes slowly under my cubicle.

Also iirc since Target in America made their changing rooms mixed sex they had lots of reported incidents of voyeurism.

I'm very sorry for your experience and I'm in no way in favour of shared, unisex changing areas. Frankly though both of the examples you've given make enclosed individual changing rooms seem like the better option, not worse.

I haven’t been too bothered by GN toilets but upon reading this, I have thought maybe I was being naive. The problem is nothing to do with trans people but men who will not behave appropriately (hope the link works) twitter.com/nonmanfryingpan/status/1134770504227807232?s=21

I haven’t been too bothered by GN toilets but upon reading this, I have thought maybe I was being naive. The problem is nothing to do with trans people but men who will not behave appropriately

This is what a whole lot of us were already saying. Nothing to do with trans, more the men who will take advantage. Use being a woman with no checks and balances to define that, makes peeves life easier. Sorry if that makes sod all sense, I'm pretty drunk.

PCohle, nothing sadly is going to be pervert proof. Personally I'd prefer single sex fully enclosed cubicles.

Treefloof - sorry I was unclear- the twitter thread I linked to was what made me think about it all, not the mn thread that only peaked my interest as I’d seen this on twitter earlier.

company's do this to cut costs in a competitive industry there is little ideology involved in these decisions they tend to tell us its for reasons it's not it's just time and cost effective.

nothing sadly is going to be pervert proof. Personally I'd prefer single sex fully enclosed cubicles.

I agree that nothing is "pervert proof". However, as a number of the links shared on this thread make clear, that is also very much true for standard single sex cubicled bathrooms.

It seems odd that some posters are so up in arms at the risks of sole-use enclosed bathrooms that they want to boycott Wagamama's, create notices to warn women etc. but are unconcerned with the risk of single sex cubicles. It makes it seem like their concerns are more driven by ideology than a genuine analysis of risk and a desire to protect women.

Replacing womens toilets with single cubicles reduces the number of available toilets, which impacts women and disabled people more than men.
The reasons women want single sex spaces include risk reduction, privacy, and biological differences.

This isnt a new debate, as the regulars are aware. The usual suggestion offered is to make the mens toilets mixed sex.

They are doing it to save space.
Rents, staff costs and food that has to be served fresh costs money.
They're trying to mitigate some of that cost by squeezing in as many tables to sit paying customers at as possible.
Our staff room is a box, our customer toilets have always been mixed.
All of the other sites I've worked at or visited are also already set up like this.
I've no idea why they are pretending this is new or drawing attention to it.
I would be surprised if 40% aren't already mixed.
Ours are all behind one door with one woman, one man and 2with the symbol for both.
They are floor to ceiling, sink, dryer and sanitary bin inside. You can't hear anything between the walls.
Also we don't tolerate drunk people inside the restaurant. Couple of drinks yes, loud rude or lewd behaviour would not be allowed.

Am I the only person who absolutely hates these fully enclosed toilets because they induce claustrophobia? I’m convinced I’m going to end up trapped in one, god help anyone if they had to call for help.

Although, I did laugh recently using the women’s toilets in Brahead, just outside Glasgow recently. They’ve put in floor to ceiling doors, but once you enter the cubicle the side partitions are the originals. I thought, you could climb across every toilet and unless you were standing up in the cubicle no one would know.

We have mixed in our office building in the basement. A corridor with doors going off into your over little gloomy concrete tomb. They are grim.

We now have lots of security staff (part of the building is open to the public) because these lovely little private rooms were being used for rough sleepers, drinks and druggies shooting up. Lovely.

making toilets mixed sex is going to make it even easier for men to film women under/over cubicles

But Wagamama aren't introducing unisex bathrooms with cubicles and I've already expressly said that I'm not in favour of those kind of unisex bathrooms. Sole-use rooms that are completely enclosed are, in my view, different - for this very reason

Jesus fucking christ.

If men are recognised as not being able to go into women's toilets then they lose the ability to enter and install equipment.

If mixed sex toilets, they can enter all individual cubicles and install equipment.

Come on, you have a brain, use it.

A man walks into the ladies loo:
‘Hey this is the ladies!’
‘What are you doing’
‘Get out of here!’

Man walks into a mixed loo or separate cubicle
‘ ‘

(New world) Self ID male walks into woman’s loos
‘Ummmmmmmm’
‘Nice shoes’
‘Isn’t the weather lovely today’
.........

The thing is I wouldn’t use these loos. The loos currently in the Cardiff Wagamama scared me enough that I won’t use them again.
I have occasionally had to use a mixed sex (single room) loo in a garage on a long car journey, and they are just horrible. Men spray urine about, and it smells . They often leave loos in a really disgusting state. I would have to be on the point of wetting myself to use a loo like that, so unless the loo is female only I don’t use it.
Plenty of loos are tucked away upstairs down a corridor, they can be deserted and unnerving at quieter times. Making them mixed sex automatically makes them less safe.
And as for hidden cameras, that is now a possibility in most changing rooms, as well as loos.
Our society does not care at all about women and girls.

PCohle No, what seems odd is that you don't know why (some) women feel safer in the old-style single-sex-with-cubicles arrangement.

The absolute need to be 'woke' whilst giving away all of women's and girl's rights, just amazes me.

Every time.

How can you just give no shits about anyone but men getting their rocks off?

Why cant men fucking well budge up, why are they not the ones expected to be inclusive and welcoming to the trans community? Why does it have to be the vulnerable half of the population that's expected to make themselves more vulnerable?

To add insult to injury we're supposed to not say anything unkind when someone crows "we've been using your spaces for years and you never knew!" Yeah right, women would never notice 🙄

We always notice.

We're not even allowed to say it. What was interesting about that family featured in the BBC gaslighting thread was that it was only one of the children who mentioned that the ahem-Mum-ahem had remarks shouted at them when they went out. Remarks shouted by men, no doubt, because men don't have to tolerate the bullshit of being forced to pretend that nobody has noticed.

Would it not be a lot healthier for vulnerable teenagers if they knew the truth, that everyone notices? Who benefits from pretending otherwise? It obviously came as a huge shock to Charlotte in that documentary that any passing stranger could instantly identify and remark on the trans status.

Wagamama getting had on twitter over this.
They should have just kept quiet instead of begging for woke cookies.
Nothing has changed. The toilets are already like this and have been for years.
Sorry I can't link.