Wagamama and gender neutral toilets

[TulipsTulipsTulips]

40% of wagamama’s toilets will be gender neutral by September. The last thing I want to do when I go out for a meal is share the facilities with men. We are different and deserve privacy! How have women’s interests become such a low priority?

Individual self contained loos being mixed use seems absolutely fine to me. Users of disabled loos certainly seem expected to be fine with that set up.

Personally I expect the risk of hidden cameras is very low and is in any event perfectly possible in single sex spaces anyway.

It’s the thin end of the wedge - don’t you see that?

Yeah, everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. Don't worry your pretty little heads about it.

TheInebriati indeed. As I mentioned in another thread, there's always a clue

Peek Hole - what an interesting username.

Is that aimed at me? I'm a long standing poster, feel free to advanced search/ask MNHQ. My username was originally after Rusty Cohle in True Detective.

Reading weird things into usernames that really isn't there frankly makes me think your concern about hidden cameras is even more likely to be founded in paranoia rather than fact.

Most of these restaurant chains seem to have unisex loos already. Corridor with 3 or 4 completely self contained toilets all labelled for both sexes. Then a disabled and baby change in addition.

Wagamama, Pizza Express, Prezzo, Zizzi, Ask, Nandos seem to have this set up in most of their restaurants. In fact I don't think I have seen a single sex loo in any of them in any city, obviously I haven't been in all of them but quite a few over the years.

Sure, whatever.

Personally I expect the risk of hidden cameras is very low and is in
any event perfectly possible in single sex spaces anyway

You have an elevated opinion on the kinds of people that use spy cameras (let's be honest mostly men).
On Alibaba's you can buy tiny cameras that look like screws. So remove a genuine screw from a fixture and replace with your camera screw.
Or a smoke detector that's really a camera. Or toilet brush with holder, one of which has a camera in it.
I agree single sex as is could have these cameras in already but by keeping single sex, we remove one chance to get these cameras installed.

The risk of having your car stolen is really quite low. Do you lock your car when you leave it?

Why bother, since the risk is quite low?

And anyway, someone really determined to steal it won't be deterred by a lock.

Wonder why insurance companies require you to lock it when you leave it?

There doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that it's a growing problem in the UK though. Just vague fear mongering articles in the likes of the Daily Mail where "experts" claim darkly that it's "on the rise" based on problems in Korea.

I'm absolutely in favour of single sex toilets and safe spaces for vulnerable women. The idea of mixed sex loos in schools for example horrifies me. But genuine individual rooms really doesn't strike me as particularly problematic and (given the uphill battle faced to have women's concerns recognised re these issues) I think focusing on them detracts from the far more concrete safety and privacy concerns of shared cubicle style loos.

It’s thin end of the wedge

@PCohle

metro.co.uk/2019/02/27/voyeur-19-filmed-woman-mcdonalds-toilet-cubicle-sneaking-hiding-8772381/amp/

A teenager who filmed a woman in a toilet cubicle at McDonald’s has been spared prison – but banned from entering toilets used by the opposite sex.

Hmm and if all public toilets are mixed sex? 🤔

Also:

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5106725/amp/Police-hunt-voyeur-hid-camera-Starbucks-toilet.html&ved=2ahUKEwiX3eKB0sjiAhUZRBUIHYw1BskQFjAEegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw3ChX1Do5VKDz1fz6HH8ePj&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5106725/amp/Police-hunt-voyeur-hid-camera-Starbucks-toilet.html&ved=2ahUKEwiX3eKB0sjiAhUZRBUIHYw1BskQFjAEegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw3ChX1Do5VKDz1fz6HH8ePj&ampcf=1

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-spy-cameras-hidden-public-places-peeping-toms-a8689626.html%3famp

However, experts say the hidden nature of the crime means most women will never be aware they have been captured on camera – and also makes it very difficult to accurately predict the scale of the problem.

Well if all toilets are the floor to ceiling model w sink surely that would make it harder for men to film?

Haven't been in Wagamama for years, def won't be patronising their restaurants again any time soon now.

I was in the Centre for Contemporary Arts in Glasgow recently. They've gone the same way with their "gender neutral toilets with cubicles and urinals" and "gender neutral toilets with cubicles only".

Passed some stupid man coming out of the "gender neutral toilets with cubicles only" option. I judged hard.

They've basically just doubled the amount of toilets available for men at the expense of women, since most women, I suspect, will avoid the "gender neutral toilets with cubicles and urinals" option like the plague.

Not if they put a camera in the loos.

DS was mucking around today with his Apple Watch and we set up his phone as a camera in the hall, and we were watching from his watch (and texting anyone who walked through the hall ‘pick up that sock!’ ‘Stop picking your nose!’). Easy peasy.

Remember the case of the doctor a few years ago who had a camera in his watch? Cameras can look like anything.

Thatwouldbe But the first article is about a man filming a woman in a single sex women's toilet. In fact, in that scenario a fully enclosed individual use room would have better protected the victim's privacy since she was spied on underneath a cubical partition. ("Unknown to her, you went in the ladies’ toilet, turned your camera on and put it under the partition").

The second and third are exactly the sort of vague scaremongering in the likes of the daily mail that I mentioned.

I was in the Centre for Contemporary Arts in Glasgow recently. They've gone the same way with their "gender neutral toilets with cubicles and urinals" and "gender neutral toilets with cubicles only"

I saw those signs but didn't need to use their toilets. I very much doubt the CCA has gone the same way as Wagamama. I suspect they have gone the same way as The Traverse and various Fringe venues and stuck a sign on the door of the traditional cubicles with cardboard partitions and huge gaps.

If they're separate rooms with the sink in the cubicle then this sounds fine to me. I don't need to use a female only space to go to the toilet if it's fully separated. I've seen toilets set up like this in lots of places, including my local hospital
and I don't see the issue.

Well if all toilets are the floor to ceiling model w sink surely that would make it harder for men to film

When the camera is in a screw

www.amazon.co.uk/ZOTER-Camera-Pinhole-Security-Surveillance/dp/B071NZ4XPX?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Freely available on Amazon for not even 30 quid.

I went through the door to the toilets today in TK Max in Glasgow. I instantly met with three men standing in a narrow corridor in front of four closed doors.

They were both on their phones and I noticed the cubicles were practically silent. I had to ask out loud 'I take it you've tried these?' To which they both looked blank and tried the door in front of each of them and I tried mine.

Totally empty.

It was a very awkward experience just standing in this narrow corridor and having to start the conversation.

Also, the toilet was caked in skid marks.

Also, the toilet was caked in skid marks.

And what conclusion are we to draw from this?

That some women from my office floor was visiting... 🥴