Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

[theOtherPamAyres]

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

Another one from me!

Yo Barra

"I will not be forced to lie. I will not submit"

Bewilderness and Angry are very much missed on here...

I miss TheUterati too. And CertainHalfDesertedStreets, and Maryz.

Did Offred get banned too?

People interested in persuasive/coercive linguistic techniques might be interested in this. There is discussion of pronouns.

The Mermaids Charity trainer demonstates many that are easily identifyable.

Recognising and understanding how these technoques are used enables listeners to remain questioning and objective.

soundcloud.com/christianconcern/lgbt-group-mermaids-training-teachers-and-governors-at-a-church-of-england-primary-school/s-BRUBN

(see also previous post re propaganda techniques etc)

Been checking in from afar, just a quick ‘hurrah’ for the return of Baracker.

That medium piece was great. Stroop effect is spot on observation! Having a degree focused on language development and the human brain, I couldn’t agree more how important this issue of language is. Our brain is unique in the way it has developed in a way to produce and process language. Those who forcibly manipulate our use of language do specifically to exert control over our cognitive process. It is very effective.

I'd hoped angryattackkittens had just name changed.

She was fantastic.

Did Offred get banned too?

Offred left of her own volition, finding the restrictions too... well, point of the thread.

I really miss MaryZ. She offered up so much on these boards for so many years. Her wise words on raising teenagers will always stay with me.

I still find it really anxiety -inducing trying to say the right thing.
Being autistic I struggle with linguistic sophistry.
I'm fine with big words and can usually manage metaphor and analogy if I get a bit of a run up.

But on this topic it seems like people say a thing they don't mean and then think you should do that too.
And I don't know the rules so I don't know how.
And even if it were clear I'm not sure I could manage.
Saying things that are not true is a struggle.

I really like this site. I've been on here for 15 years nearly. I like being able to support people without actually having to meet them. It's where I come if something new happens. Like when we rehomed a dog recently.

I don't want to be banned and it would really isolate me.

But I don't know what the rules are so that makes me anxious.

I miss the women who've been banned.

I'm so happy barracker is back. She's one of the first posters I noticed a couple of years ago when the cognitive dissonance got too loud.

The medium piece is amazing. What a powerful and thought provoking analogy. I was sans internet for most of this. Funny how all the shit with the mods made me notice something I'd never have seen.

Is there a concerted effort to stop women forming links at the moment? With each other - lib fem vs rad fem, younger vs older etc. And to stop women seeing the patterns in their own experiences - so many instances in the media where language hides the perpetrators of crimes and not just by miss-sexing. Barracker's analogy was between two things which overwhelmingly effect women negatively. Both things are forced upon us by people more powerful. She's so right about the importance of vigilance.

It's ingenius as well.
Appealing to socialization to be nice and accommodating.
It's why it works better to coerce groups of women.
Groups of men aren't remotely bothered.

I remember in 2011 ish when some activists were arguing women should concede 'woman' and try to keep 'female'.
Which seemed a bit daft to me.
But this year female is really slipping. I would like to be able to describe myself.

link to transcript of Mermaids training session.
Persuasive inguistic techniques are often more apparent when seen in print:

twitter.com/CConcern/status/1133755742853451776

Sorry, I'm late - welcome back Barracker!

As for 'preferred pronouns' - I just will not.

There. Are. Four. Lights.

Ahh the Uterati, she told it like it was.
Loved her username too.

I also miss Bewilderness's rules of misogyny delivered in style.

Is Upstartcrow still around?

I wonder.

I bloody love you people

Pratchet is gone too.

I have been missing Pratchet for a long time.
I learned a lot from her

Yes I was wondering about Pratchet. Was she exiled or did she leave of her own will? I remember her as being one of the most compelling posters when I first started lurking here.

She's still on the site. Saw her in relatipnships last week. Perhaps PM her?

Sorry, also late to the party!! Welcome back, Barracker!!

So glad Barracker is back. But now I find myself not knowing what to do. When we could all agree that we used preferred pronouns for 'politeness' (and even Germaine Greer said she did that) then I could reconcile in my head that that is what I was doing. But now I am in a dilemma. If this about protecting my own thinking /perception of truth then how can I do that whilst using language at odds with my reality. But if is it important to speak out the truth as I see it, and this thread has really shown me how important it is, how can I deal with the possible consequences of that?

The bullying by TRAs and targeting of GC females on Mumsnet has actually changed me from a live and let live feminist, that unwittingly got caught up in a creeps fantasy, when I first started, to a woman that will NEVER EVER use female pronouns for a man who claims to be trans. The same goes for confused females who are trying to identify out of their real oppression as females. I will use what name they want or describe them, as in ‘the person that is wearing such’n’such and has long hair’, but I REFUSE to lie. Ironically it’s MNHQ punishing posters for using the CORRECT pronouns that has also made me wake up to how insidious this gaslighting is.

Ditto S1 I am fully converted and proudly so. My eyes are open wide and I've learnt so much, I can't go back now.

Not using pronouns and I'm not respecting the word 'misgendered' either (as the OP here rightly pointed out on another thread, it's just another fake word).

(And as I'm genderfree I don't have pronouns, only my name which can be either male or female...as a biological female I respect men's spaces by not using the men's toilets.)

I'm trying to remember the posters who made an impression on me when I first found my way here over five years ago...a good few are still here but I remember DonkeySkin and CoteDAzure, HairyLittlePoet too.

Are they gone or just name changed...?