Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

[theOtherPamAyres]

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

Your meaning is very clear and well put!

Thanks to all of you for this amazing and really important thread. I don’t post very often, but really had to come on and say welcome back to Barracker. The women of FWR are incredible!

So glad you're back, Barracker!

Your posts so often make me see things from a completely new angle. I look forward to reading more in future!

Good to see you back, Barracker. The piece in Medium was very powerful. I’ve always felt very uncomfortable at the insistence on ‘correct’ pronouns and the term ‘misgendering’. At least part my misgivings are because many young children are very honest and ‘say what you see’. Gaslighting a young child by overriding their physical senses this way is just wrong.

Yay, you're back Barracker.

Thanks to you all for pulling this thread along in the most amazing way.

I’m really glad you are back barracker and that your post was reinstated. It’s so simple and obvious when you think of it that way. I was lying in bed thinking about it last night and you are so right about how pronouns totally change perception of risk
Thank you!

I mentioned up thread this reminds me of Little Red Riding Hood.

I hadn't realised the wolf had actually consumed the grandmother before disguising himself by wearing her grandmother's clothes.

Like all folk/fairy tales, it is very symbolic and unfortunately still relevant.

Here is an extract from Wikipedia.

in 1697, by Charles Perrault. As the title implies, this version[25] is both more sinister and more overtly moralized than the later ones

Charles Perrault explained the 'moral' at the end of the tale:[27] so that no doubt is left to his intended meaning

From this story one learns that children, especially young lasses, pretty, courteous and well-bred, do very wrong to listen to strangers, And it is not an unheard thing if the Wolf is thereby provided with his dinner. I say Wolf, for all wolves are not of the same sort; there is one kind with an amenable disposition – neither noisy, nor hateful, nor angry, but tame, obliging and gentle, following the young maids in the streets, even into their homes. Alas! Who does not know that these gentle wolves are of all such creatures the most dangerous!

The earlier versions of little red riding hood don't have a happy ending.

I'm not aware if the story has been Disneyfied.

I suspect not.

From the previously linked threadreader by CCCBuryStEd:

"To understand coercive control.
To REALLY understand it, you need to understand how manipulators work. The things they know they can do, to bring us to our knees.

#coercivecontrol (continues)

BUT that is not to say that all those who are controlling are narcissists. Many are.
But not all.

What they DO have in common is how they love bomb you until you’re invested

They can not sustain the façade of the wonderful, attentive, perfect soul mate so they need to ensure you fall in love with them quickly. Before you find out their true nature.

Another characteristic they share is their need to present a false image of themselves to the outside world.
(see screenshot for embedded image)

Once they know you’re invested in the relationship, they can reveal more of their true selves. They know it’s harder to leave once you’ve committed. This could be an emotional investment or it could be financial. Moving in together, a joint mortgage, pregnancy.
#coercivecontrol " (continues)

And all it takes is a look or a sigh or some tiny gesture for you to realise what they are capable of.

Yet, to the outside world, looking in, the threats are invisible but what is not is your fear is your panic, your sleep deprivation, your hyper vigilance, your disorientation.
But they can’t see and can’t possibly know what has happened behind closed doors. It’s easier to believe you are mentally ill than the truth that they are manipulating you, AND THEM.

It’s all invisible in plain sight."
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1106169274761129984.html

Like all folk/fairy tales, it is very symbolic and unfortunately still relevant.

There's a great deal of feminist literary criticism & writing about the importance of deconstructing fairy/folk tales.

There was also a great deal of feminist theory and writing about the importance and power of language.

The colonisation of Women's Studies by Gender Studies/Queer theory has had hugely significant implications.

Very late to the party but wanting to cheer that Barracker has been reinstated. Thrilled to have her back.

But I can't forget the many women who have been banned from FWR simply for sticking up for women's rights.

But I can't forget the many women who have been banned from FWR simply for sticking up for women's rights.

I completely agree.
FWR lost the voices, experience & wisdom of many wonderful feminists.

Their knowledge & insight is greatly missed.

FWR lost the voices, experience & wisdom of many wonderful feminists.

Yes. I miss Angry Attack Kittens, whose wit can't easily be replaced.

Seems appropriate at this point to link TheBewildess rules:

The rules of misogyny
1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

5th rule of misogyny: WATM! Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.

7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.

14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.
www.reddit.com/r/Gender_Critical/comments/6kkeni/the_rules_of_misogyny/

What does WATM stand for in the 5th rule?

"What About The Men!"

I am really pleased you are back Barracker and pleased MNHQ were reasonable about this. It restores my faith somewhat.

I actually saw part of your Medium article shared as a meme today by a feminist group. I linked to your article underneath. So internet meme fame now

Yo Barra Kerr

"I will not be forced to lie. I will not submit"

R0 just a little thank you from me for always providing appropriate threads for context and snippets of other posts. It must take you ages and it is so very helpful. Thank you, it is always appreciated

TPC thank you, Im happy to help where I can & have more time available than many.

Bewilderness and Angry are very much missed on here...

Hear hear. Adding my thanks to R0 the resident femcyclopaedia.

Love that video theOtherPamAyres
"I will not be forced to lie"

Here's another video with Julia Long:
"I will not say it".

Watch from 1:07:55

I didn’t know that Angry attack kittens and Bewilderness had been banned ! What on earth for ?

Quite some time ago, SirVix. It was like the Hunger Games at the time, several others were banned too. There was a thread keeping track, a roll call of posters to see who had evaded the cull.

I miss these posters terribly. It's a huge loss for Mumsnet. I hope MNHQ find a way to reconsider those decisions.

There was a thread keeping track, a roll call of posters to see who had evaded the cull.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3366728-Missing-in-Action