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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

652 replies

theOtherPamAyres · 25/05/2019 23:14

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

OP posts:
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FermatsTheorem · 26/05/2019 21:37

Barracker just in case you're following this, you're a bloody Star and I will miss your amazing posts (hoping for a reinstatement, but we've lost so many bloody good women on here I'm not holding my breath). Flowers

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 26/05/2019 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HeronLanyon · 26/05/2019 21:38

GinStarWine

JessicaWakefieldSV · 26/05/2019 21:43

SpartacusAutisticusAHF thanks.

OhHolyJesus · 26/05/2019 21:45

Love that Medium piece. Will share it widely. We await your return Barracker Wine

Cuntysnark · 26/05/2019 21:50

The medium piece is everything.

theOtherPamAyres · 26/05/2019 21:51

I made my first ever “they” post the other day

There was a side-splitting thread on Twitter, by an otherwise fluent wordsmith, describing the situation with a certain high profile no-sex-preferred politician (Did you see what I did there?)

The use of 'they is, they was, they gets, they ignores etc' made it sound like the account had been taken over by the someone from 'The Only Way is Essex'. It was funny and illustrated how compelled language backfires in the hands of disobedient women.

OP posts:
Michelleoftheresistance · 26/05/2019 21:59

Excellent article on Medium.

Particularly like the pointing out of the cognitive effort it takes to process and consciously use language and concepts in direct contradiction to the information of your senses.

I say this a lot, I'll say it again. We are being told that we must say 'people who have periods' because the word 'women' is not inclusive to less than 1% of the population. We're told this is such a huge deal that women must accept losing the word 'woman' because of it.

Well a huge percentage of the population, much greater than 1%, are affected by difficulties and challenges with processing and with social and semantic comprehension related to disability. Some people cannot jump through these hoops even if they want to. How exactly is this compelled belief and language inclusive for them?

It's almost as if inclusivity is a useful word to influence people to conform to certain behaviour instead of a concept this political lobby actually stands behind.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 26/05/2019 22:06

Great medium piece Barracker - thank you.

I agree - language is political

Absolutepowercorrupts · 26/05/2019 22:14

Empress that link is proof of how our minds are controlled by what we see and and what we are told. Coercive control @ MNHQ

Voice0fReason · 26/05/2019 22:17

Excellent blog.

Poor judgement from MNHQ on banning her.

SisterWendyBuckett · 26/05/2019 22:17

Forcing our brains to ignore the evidence of our eyes, to ignore a conflict between what we see and know to be true, and what we are expected to say, affects us.

Thank you Barracker Thanks

I refuse to collude with my own gaslighting.

pombear · 26/05/2019 22:22

Star Star Star

I hope Labi Siffre won't mind me borrowing these words.

The higher you build your barriers
The taller I become
The further you take my rights away
The faster I will run
You can deny me, you can decide
To turn your face away
No matter 'cause there's

Something inside so strong
I know that I can make it
Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong
You thought that my pride was gone, oh no
There's something inside so strong
Oh, something inside so strong

pombear · 26/05/2019 22:25

From Barracker's brilliant Medium piece regarding pronouns:

They dull your defences. They change your inhibitions. They’re meant to. You've had a lifetime’s experience learning to be alert to ‘him’ and relax to ‘her’. For good reason. This instinctive response keeps you safe. It’s not even a conscious thing. It’s like your hairs standing on end. Your subconscious brain is helping you not get eaten by the sabre tooth tiger that your eyes haven’t noticed yet.

vicviking · 26/05/2019 22:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

pombear · 26/05/2019 22:28

This:

I want my instincts as intact as possible.

It's what many of us teach our children. It's shocking that on a parenting website we're being gaslighted into practicsing something else.

(Hint: many of us aren't doing so!)

TinselAngel · 26/05/2019 22:28

Sheila Jeffreys on this.

Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?
Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?
LangCleg · 26/05/2019 22:30

I agree - language is political

Always worth re-reading Orwell:

www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit

WrathofGRAconsultationKlop · 26/05/2019 22:31

Talk about shoot yourself in your prettily manicured size 12 😏
Grin

JackyHolyoake · 26/05/2019 22:31

From which book is that please?

LangCleg · 26/05/2019 22:31

Barracker - you're wonderful. Never stop. And hurry back. Seven days is too long...

(Yes, yes, I know: my music references are antediluvian.)

LangCleg · 26/05/2019 22:33

It's what many of us teach our children. It's shocking that on a parenting website we're being gaslighted into practicsing something else.

Yes. And the boundaries-annihilation of the No Outsiders programme is being completely ignored by the media.

I fucking hate queer theory.

TinselAngel · 26/05/2019 22:34

From which book is that please?

If you mean the quote from Sheila, it's from Gender Hurts.

TalkingintheDark · 26/05/2019 22:38

Just catching up with all this properly. Wow. Banning Barracker!! Unbelievable.

This is one of those threads where I just want to bold almost everything everyone else has already said and agree with it.

So, inspired by Empress, I wrote a haiku instead:

Attempts to silence
Women who think for themselves
Only amplify

Those women’s voices.
Angry men await in vain
Our acquiescence.

WrathofGRAconsultationKlop · 26/05/2019 22:44

The Medium article is excellent.

Thankyou Barracker

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