Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

[theOtherPamAyres]

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

Thanks TinselAngel

I'm off to bed but, reflecting on this thread before I do. I just wanted to reiterate what I said to crochetandshit earlier today.

Watching what's happened to Barracker today must be disheartening for some (though seeing her emerge on Medium is a lovely segue! But to reiterate to those who feel like crochetandshit :

It's not too late.

And we can still state biological reality.

I still see it often on this board. And don't forget about offline life. I've been to two amazing events over the last couple of weeks where women spoke the truth and biological reality to each other, on panels, in the pub before and after, on trains travelling to and from events, and in their homes, in their workplaces in conversations.

The time, as you say, truly is now.

Mumsnet's moderation does not reflect life-moderation. Mumsnet has enabled us to have a discussion that many other platforms have denied. But it is not the be all and end all.

Women all over the place are getting together and talking about this- online platforms are useful but, I'm sure to the frustration of the Mumsnet 'monitors', our offline conversations carry on regardless of your 'reports'.

Thank you for an excellent article Barracker.

I am really sad that she has been suspended for a week MNHQ. I don't see that it is justified.

What barracker suspended for 7 days. What sort of shite is this

For what. Speaking truth.

FFS

Apologies.
Sometimes when I post, the thread has moved on so fast, my comment looks completely out of context.

Memo to self,
Keep up and concentrate Klop

And what she wrote was truly truly brain changing for me

It was like yes of course. That made so much sense. 👊👊👊👊👊👊

Women all over the place are getting together and talking about this- online platforms are useful but, I'm sure to the frustration of the Mumsnet 'monitors', our offline conversations carry on regardless of your 'reports'.

Do read & watch this brilliant speech by Cllr Sarah Fields made yesterday at the Declaration of Sex-Based Rights event in the Civic Hall, Leeds on 25/5/19

(extract)
"It is absurd, it is dangerous and millions of women across the country are saying we have had enough. You cannot identify into an oppressed class because you cannot identify out of an oppressed class. And women are uniquely oppressed across the planet: reproductive health and autonomy, Female Genital Mutilation, violence, rape, child marriage, no right to vote, death in childbirth, post-natal illness, denied access to education, lower wages, chemical contraception, sex trafficking, surrogacy, pornography, prostitution and objectification.

I’ve had women in prisons and post-prison services in Leeds who have contacted me in fear and despair because they are confined with men who threaten them with rape, assault them, repeatedly expose their so called female penises and taunt them about playing the system and flushing their hormones down the toilet." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3595007-Leeds-Councillor-thanks-Mumsnet-FWR-in-gender-critical-speech

In September 2018 Anne Ruzylo spoke at the Manchester Standing for Women meeting. Anne Ruzylo is a former prison officer and in her speech she described how vulnerable female prisoners were being punished for 'misgendering' the male prisoners they were locked in with.
from 28:05
drradfem.org/standing-for-women-manchester/

Oh, and hey, monitors. There's a chance I may have missed Barracker's fantastic points, given it was a slow Bank Holiday sunday today.

Thanks for pushing her post to the forefront of my mind.

Rest assured I'll be using her fantastic analogy at the centre of my offline conversations in the next weeek. Thanks

Thanks ROw - didn't intend to speak over you. Just had the post hanging as I was brushing my teetth! Loving all the posts right now in support of Barracker and speaking truth.

pombear
No worries, I was interjecting but had the speech open & it seemed especially relevent.
The impact on the vulnerable female prisoners who are being gaslit whilst locked in with males, many of whom have committed violent /sexual crimes is unimaginable.
Its a complete failure of the Duty of Care owed by the State & for women, many of whom have been in controlling abusive relationships, so damaging.

Using pronouns as a courtesy.
Yes we are courteous and obedient.

Misgender them and they demand compliance.

Words and language are so powerful, more powerful than many of us realised.

A question posed by the op and one post by Baracker is all it took.

Amazing.

Cor. Go on holiday and miss the drama

As someone who was banned a couple of weekends ago by some rather trigger happy modding and reinstated on the Monday, for you Barracker, I’m sorry this has been done to you. Looking forward to your return

Thanks Barracker for a brilliant article and analysis.

Ridiculous that she's been deleted and banned but it's spectacularly backfired if the intention was to close the discussion down.

That colour experiment was amazing, and just shows how difficult it is to use language which contradicts what your eyes are telling you.

Also agree with Michelle

Well a huge percentage of the population, much greater than 1%, are affected by difficulties and challenges with processing and with social and semantic comprehension related to disability. Some people cannot jump through these hoops even if they want to. How exactly is this compelled belief and language inclusive for them?

Would actually really like an answer to this question from MNHQ

If only they’d left it alone, Barracker’s rohypnol analogy would have sunk into oblivion, would never have been seen by more than a few here on mn and there’d be no brilliant follow on article.

Yes, now look what you monitors did - it’s everywhere!

I guess we can’t complain too much if they keep gifting us these massive own goals but I’m still hoping MNHQ takes another look at that week long ban because it really is not justified.

Ohhh I glanced at this post 24 hours ago, nodding in agreement at Barrakers post and then didn't give it much thought as I had a hugely busy day ahead of me (I'm on t'other side of the world- just got up again)
And then noticed there had been a banning etc.
And have revisited the thread and all the accompanying articles etc.
Own goal is right!
Come HQ - a week's ban is ridiculous

Barracker getting a suspension for a post that did not break talk guidelines is utterly ridiculous. I’ve never seen a week suspension for a “Not is the spirit” post before. WTF is going on, HQ?

Meh... I understand the posters who are losing interest in posting to Mumsnet when ridiculous shit like this happens, but please don't do that.

As I see it, MNHQ have a long-held protrans, antiwoman stance that has been in their moderation policy for years. I remember them banning posters 2 or 3 years back for calling Bruce Jenner a he... when he was presenting as a man to go golfing ffs.

Is it woke 18 year olds doing the moderation now? I can't find an explanation for it.

They really need to reflect and think about what kind of site they are running now. Banning Barracker for a superb, thought-provoking post like that? Absolutely pathetic.

You may as well just can the Feminist Board altogether if you are going to remove stuff like that.

Top Google result for ‘Barracker Rohypnol’ is this thread, so well done with the censorship.

Fab article

I'm getting more and more disobedient these days. I absolutely refuse point blank to refer to male bodied people as 'she'. It raises a few eyebrows but haven't been disciplined yet. I am, of course, totally polite, courteous, kind and professional to the person when he is in front of me, but in a workplace where biology is kind of important, that kind of cognitive dissonance is all rather odd.

I might point out the phenomenal amount of traffic that the FWR boards bring to mumsnet.
I might suggest that eloquent and intelligent posters like barracker (and others lost to the ban hammer) are part of the big draw.
I might say that mnhq should be cognizant that there come be a tipping point, where those phenomenal numbers are no longer finding the eloquent and intelligence analysis that drew them...

The Medium article has now been retweeted by Glinner.
Perfect example of Striesland effect.
I would really like an explanation as to why Barracker was suspended. It's bad enough having to keep to these coercive rules, but itis increasing like abusive behaviour to change the rules without warning and then punish us for breaking them.

Rowantrees -thanks for posting the Cllr Field Leeds clip.

If I can extricate myself from the snoring toddler I'm going to creep downstairs now for listen

Msmacwibble (great name btw) - haha re Glinner retweeting it - that's cemented it as a 'thing' now.

Re it backfiring, I've got a feeling that I've read something very similar to the banned comment, probably from Barracker and probably on here (within the last 10 months as I wasn't aware of the boards until then)

Without this fuss I probably would have forgotten again but now, it's lodged in my brain