Mermaids response to piece in Mail tomorrow

[EweSurname]

Looking forward to seeing what drops

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/press-enquiry-from-the-mail-on-sunday-25th-may-2019.html

We are very proud of the training we offer to schools and we have a proven record of helping teachers to support vulnerable children who simply want to get along with their lessons like any of their classmates.

We are disappointed to find that a school governor has made a covert recording of our training because our presentations are not held in secret and all of the scientific and legal information we offer is publicly available and well-tested.

We are surprised to see that a Church of England rector is complaining about our training when we are included in the CoE guidance on support for transgender people, which can be found here.

Part of the work of Mermaids is giving training talks to schools. These talks are well received and are an important part of how we promote an inclusive and informed approach to trans children and those who support them.

We have been contacted by the Mail on Sunday who are doing an article about one such talk. This post is our response, in accordance with our policy of posting our replies to media queries for the benefit of anyone interested in our activities.

That's it though isn't it, disproportionately in comparison to what exactly, white transwomen, transmen, black women, what is the comparison made to, who made it?

But then, actually thinking about what these words mean isn't what you are supposed to take away from the paragraph is it, you are just supposed to remember it disproportionately happens.

Or in proportion to sex workers?

Or in proportion to sex workers?

Or in proportion to young black men

Both these demographics are extremely vulnerable in the US.

Or be a US student. Gun crime isn’t exactly rare in the US.

It's great as a parent of three children, grandparent of three, and for many years a teacher for children with special needs, to be told that I don't care about safeguarding children, because I dare to question people's very one-sided and transphobic comments on this thread.

From what I can see, no-one has troubled to think about the child (or indeed, any child) who identifies differently. (Aside from ad hominem attacks on people who try to respect diversity, who value ALL children) There ARE children who have gender dysphoria, who are transgender, intersex or non-binary - NOT coerced into it by bullying or over PC parents, though I can see that this might happen on occasions. They deserve respect and fair treatment, not some sort of suppression of their identity.

"Trying to change your child’s gender identity – either by denial, punishment, reparative therapy or any other tactic – is not only ineffective; it is dangerous and can do permanent damage to your child’s mental health. So-called “reparative” or “conversion” therapies, which are typically faith-based, have been uniformly condemned as psychologically harmful by the American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and numerous similar professional organizations." This is from the Gender Identity and Research and Education Society. And yes, I can see that it applies both ways.

Another comment is that that the governor has a duty to safeguard the children in the school. Doesn't this apply to a child who identifies differently, as much as to all the others in your eyes?

Again, I've been accused of condemning children to a life of hormone treatment and operations, or words to that effect. This may be an option which is chosen by an individual, and who has the right to deny them that right if it's an informed choice with full psychological, pschyciatric and medical counselling for support? Not me. Not you.

All I can say is that it maybe the case that the training wasn't the best, and that is something that could be addressed, but on this thread I can't see ONE comment that admits that there can be a child in a school who identifies differently - it's all dismissed as 'cod science' and I am concerned to speak out for those children who, it seems, have no voice. Well done to the school which tried to address it.

Someone, when they saw how I'd been reviled, despite only ever making respectul enquiring comments, mentioned to me the acronym TERF. I had never heard it before and had to look it up. Is this what this thread is then? A TERF thread? Solely for "trans-exclusionary radical feminists"?

Welcome crlncxn. What's your connection to this? Were you involved in the training? Or did you clash with someone upthread?

Please bear in mind that 'terf' is an insult used to dehumanize and silence women who don't believe in the female penis.

I have never, ever read an article about a trans child that didn't mention the wrong toys as central. It's all about the stereotypes. There's never anything else.

to be told that I don't care about safeguarding children

From what I can see, no-one has troubled to think about the child (or indeed, any child) who identifies differently.

You clearly didn't read what I said to you then. I asked you why you would approve of Mermaids training because it puts the very children who identify differently outside of the protection safeguarding protocols extend to them. I was thinking of those children: you, apparently, are waving away their statutory protections.

From confidential disclosures through parental alienation and promotion of off label drugs to erosion of sexual boundaries - the list is endless.

If you have spent a career working with children, it is utterly shocking that you are ignorant of this.

As they like to say in the community (bitter laugh) - it might help to educate yourself.

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Safeguarding_Concerns_web.pdf

A child who doesn’t feel ‘like a girl’ or ‘like a boy’ is a kid who doesn’t want to act, loot or have the interest that they are supposed to have. It doesn’t make the the opposite sex.

So questioning gender stereotypes isn’t transphobic. No one is scared of transsexuals - they are questioning the whole transvestite lobby who pre-sexualise children into believing that they can change their biological sex, and that a male bodied person can be a woman by believing it to be so (even if they can’t articulate what a woman ‘feels like’ and think it’s all about shaving your legs, having long hair and enjoying the odd wolf whistle).

It’s about questioning why a ten year old drag queen is shimmying on stage in gay bars for dollars (the type of bars where you can’t take your phone into).

It’s questioning why a parent would ‘prefer’ and trans child than a ‘gay’ child.

It’s asking the question - how the hell can a child, toddler or event (yes it’s been stated) a baby can assert that they have been born into ‘the wrong body’?

It’s querying lobby groups telling children that they don’t speak to their parents - no speak to random strangers on social media (they are your new family), or telling schools or clubs that they don’t need to tell parents that their girls may well be sharing sleeping or washing facilities with the opposite sex.

It’s asking why women should be forced to allow male bodied people into intimate and safe areas - just because they say they are a woman (when quite evidently they are male).

So many question, so few answers.

Another comment is that that the governor has a duty to safeguard the children in the school. Doesn't this apply to a child who identifies differently, as much as to all the others in your eyes?

Yes as I said governors have utimate responsibility for all the children and all the staff in the school as you know if you have been a teacher.

(I also have taught children with additional needs)

A child may say that they are suicidal. Really really suicidal. Or that they feel that they are so fat they need to vomit every meal up. Or that they feel so ugly and worthless they want to harm themselves. Or that they want to be a dog.

Yes we listen to the children - but they are children.

All I can say is that it maybe the case that the training wasn't the best, and that is something that could be addressed, but on this thread I can't see ONE comment that admits that there can be a child in a school who identifies differently - it's all dismissed as 'cod science' and I am concerned to speak out for those children who, it seems, have no voice. Well done to the school which tried to address it

No the Mermaids training which has been recorded on two separate occasions has been described as cod science.

You seem to be either misunderstanding or misrepresenting comments.

but on this thread I can't see ONE comment that admits that there can be a child in a school who identifies differently - it's all dismissed as 'cod science'

I’d say that every child identifies differently, gender is a spectrum after all.

Gender identity isn’t sex though.

Gender is just the icing on the cake. It means very little in way if substance.

Fruitcakes come to mind for some reason.

Again, I've been accused of condemning children to a life of hormone treatment and operations, or words to that effect. This may be an option which is chosen by an individual, and who has the right to deny them that right if it's an informed choice with full psychological, pschyciatric and medical counselling for support? Not me. Not you.

Professor Carl Heneghan head of Oxford's Evidence Based Medicine examined the basis for prescribing children puberty blockers/ cross sex hormones. The paper was published in the BMJ

He concluded: The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."

"Conclusions

There are significant problems with how the evidence for Gender-affirming cross-sex hormone has been collected and analysed that prevents definitive conclusions to be drawn. Similar to puberty blockers, the evidence is limited by small sample sizes; retrospective methods, loss of considerable numbers of patients in follow-up. The majority of studies also lack a control group (only two studies used controls). Interventions have heterogeneous treatment regimes complicating comparisons between studies. Also adherence to the interventions are either not reported or at best inconsistent. Subjective outcomes, which are highly prevalent in the studies, are also prone to bias due to lack of blinding, and many effects can be explained by regression to the mean.

The development of these interventions should, therefore, occur in the context of research. Treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents remain largely experimental. There are a large number of unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; adverse events, long term effects on mental health, quality of life, bone mineral density, osteoporosis in later life and cognition. We wonder whether off label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms, including death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."
blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

Someone, when they saw how I'd been reviled, despite only ever making respectul enquiring comments, mentioned to me the acronym TERF. I had never heard it before and had to look it up. Is this what this thread is then? A TERF thread? Solely for "trans-exclusionary radical feminists"?

Its a thread about Safeguarding, Duty of Care, education responsibilities & the Rights of the Child.

'Terf' is a slur and is used to try to silence (predominantly women). Its innacurate, disingenous and you should check the pinned post on FWR as using it is contrary to civilised discussion & your posts may be deleted.

People concerned for potential serious Safeguarding failings tend not to shut up when others try to smear/shame them. As was the case for the Vicar & school governor in the OP article.

In most situations any adult trying to silence the discussion of Safeguarding concerns would be considered as representing an additional potential risk.

Hi crlncxn
There ARE children who have gender dysphoria, who are transgender, intersex or non-binary
Could I ask why you bring intersex conditions into this conversation? Intersex people have asked to be kept out of this debate as being trans has nothing to do with being intersex.

Once again you have come on to the thread without first even listening to the Recording that the thread is about, you've half read posts (or rather deliberately tried to misrepresent what has been conveyed in those posts) and continued displaying prejudice towards what we know and who we are.

Do you honestly think we wouldn't have opinion on this if we hadn't been through similar in our own childhoods, or with our own children?

You are very load to announce you know nothing about the topic at hand in this thread, the mermaids recording, having only the vaguest idea of what is being discussed.

I am concerned to speak out for those children who, it seems, have no voice.

You clearly are unaware of the extent that Mermaids Charity has influenced public services, education, NHS, Police & Scocial Care policies.
Have you not seen how great a voice Susie Green (CEO Mermaids) has?

You've also not answered my previous questions,:

If it's true that trans children become trans adults, why is waiting so bad, why force it?
Surely watchful waiting is best, rather than steering onto a dangerous pathway?

Why can't a boy wear a skirt and be a boy?

You clearly are unaware of the extent that Mermaids Charity has influenced public services, education, NHS, Police & Scocial Care policies.
Have you not seen how great a voice Susie Green (CEO Mermaids) has?

Or maybe you are and you are being disingenous here.
Impossible to know on forums such as this.

There ARE children who have gender dysphoria, who are transgender, intersex or non-binary - NOT coerced into it by bullying or over PC parents, though I can see that this might happen on occasions. They deserve respect and fair treatment, not some sort of suppression of their identity

People here do care about children, and deeply so. We recognise the issues of childhood because we've been children ourselves, and most of us also have children and grandchildren ourselves. Many of us have been, or still are, teachers, or in other child centred occupations.

We disagree, however, that there is an inherent condition called 'being trans'; that somehow children can be in the wrong body. We do recognise, however, that many children, most often those nascent gay or lesbian; or maybe on the autistic spectrum, do go through stages of feeling dysphoric - but this is normal, and in most cases passes with puberty or early adulthood.

The adult's role is to hold the boundaries for that child and affirm that there is nothing wrong with their body, and that they can 'express' however they like in that body. The child may require counselling or therapy. What they don't require is for adults to play along with, or promote or encourage an ideology that goes against biological reality, and all of the previous tenets of psychotherapy ( body/mind integration), and rules of safeguarding.

We also recognises that many children are not strictly gender conforming - and enjoy, or relate to, activities stereotypically associated with the opposite sex, without being particularly dysphoric.

We see that teaching children that being trans is 'normal', or an option for self expression is damaging - not only to that child, but to the children around them. Damaging, confusing, and leading to potential & ongoing medical and hormonal interventions.

This is from the Gender Identity and Research and Education Society.

GIRES produce 'educational' materials to teach children as young as 3 that they can change sex. Do you not see a problem with this?

www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Penguin-Story-Trans-Boy.pdf

I am concerned to speak out for those children who, it seems, have no voice.

Like detransitioners and transsexuals who support watchful waiting, all of whom are horrible attacked by Trans-right activists for wrong think?

Or like the people represented by multi-million dollar mermaids and stonewall?

crlncxn

If you are genuinely interested in the Safeguarding of all children in schools, including those questioning their gender identity / gender non-conforming can I recommend Transgender Trend's website?

On the site you will find information and research, resources for parents and teachers and legal information.
THere are school toolkits & Safeguarding guides:

www.transgendertrend.com/