Ben Carson restores women’s rights in homeless shelters

[happydappy2]

Breitbart.com This is a bit of good news. Ben Carson’s department of housing and urban development has decided to restore single sex spaces for women in homeless shelters amid growing Democratic pressure for women to share their sleeping and bathroom spaces with men who say they have the ‘gender identity’ of a woman.

Brilliant. Hopefully won’t be the last to insist on respecting women’s right.

This is good news for vulnerable women, which of course means the Washington Post etc are framing it as "Trump administration strips transgender rights."

At last some good news from America

Yes, the Obama rule that allowed TW access to the very few women-only homeless shelters that exist advised shelter staff that they could know a man was a woman by their “appearance, behavior, and mannerisms.”

Thus creating the circumstance where at some point a court would have adjudicate just what constituted womanly appearance, behavior, and mannerisms.

I would be really careful using Breitbart as a source. They are known to be extremely right wing and partisan in the US. I am not saying that they are incorrect in this instance, but I would always try to find a source other than them for any news. They will be extremely biased and quite often just make things up.

So you're getting your good news from Breitbart and Ben "ban abortion oh and btw Joseph built the Pyramids" Carson is your ally?

I read it here:

www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/05/22/proposed-hud-rule-would-strip-transgender-protections-homeless-shelters/

If only Pritzker, etc, would turn their funding attentions to creating provision for homeless trans people.

Ah, I forgot, that wouldn't be validating for male people who demand the right to intrude on female people at will. Obviously the feelings of male people come before the physical safety, let alone the feelings, of female people...

Yes, the Obama rule that allowed TW access to the very few women-only homeless shelters that exist advised shelter staff that they could know a man was a woman by their “appearance, behavior, and mannerisms.”

I'm curious, can you tell me how you're going to prevent sex offenders masquerading as trans men when you reached your promised chromosomally-segregated land?

And if you want it from the other perspective

www.aclu.org/press-releases/hud-moves-allow-anti-trans-discrimination-federally-funded-homeless-shelters

Shout out to Carson's Mum who raised him as a single mother in Detroit and made sure he did his homework, stayed out of trouble and went on to become a neurosurgeon.

(Sure, he has some 'interesting' political beliefs but there's only so much a mother can do).

Sex offenders masquerading as trans men? I had to read that several times and still can't make sense of it.

To be clear, I am no fan of either Carson or Trump. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I'm curious, can you tell me how you're going to prevent sex offenders masquerading as trans men when you reached your promised chromosomally-segregated land?

Erm.... no. Wait.... run that past me agauin... Sex offenders are predominantly male, almost but not quite exclusively so; transmen are women... so you are either saying that women are sex offenders in the same way men are, or male sex offenders will masquerade as transmen, cos bluff and double bluff will make it impossible to know what the fuck you were looking at in the forst place...

OR you are saying, well, no, maybe not. Ach! Fuck it, you probably have no idea what that sentence means either!!

So you're getting your good news from Breitbart and Ben "ban abortion oh and btw Joseph built the Pyramids" Carson is your ally?

If Breitbart reported that Ben Carson thinks people should be kind to animals would you start torturing puppies?

You can agree with people on some issues and not on others. You can even agree with the outcome when you know the sentiment behind it was disagreeable. Like when DH angry cleans.

Tribalism is the enemy of thoughtful debate.

Well said, Towel.

Fox's oh-so-original gotcha is that a predatory male could demand entry to a women's only refuge by claiming to be an f2m transitioner with particularly convincing surgery.

This is of course ignoring the fact that a shelter would be permitted to eject such a man (once identified), whereas they were not permitted to eject men-identifying as women under the Obama-era rules. And that if official documents correctly reflected sex (as they should) this abuse would be far harder.

I'm curious, can you tell me how you're going to prevent sex offenders masquerading as trans men when you reached your promised chromosomally-segregated land?

Ask them for a letter from their doctor confirming their status as born female. This is the stupidest "gotcha" I've ever seen.

I for one am absolutely horrified that leftist men have chosen not to stand up for the rights of homeless women, probably THE most victimized demographic in the US, and so have left a political vacuum for the right to step into.

Didn't Haddock say he was going to do that to prove a point - pretend to be a transman and try and use the women's changing room at the gym? Such a creep. Most trans people don't pass. Women pass better as men than the reverse, but I've met lots of FtM transitioners and they were still pretty easy to spot. If someone who looked indistinguishably male rocked up and claimed to be female it's hardly rocket science to ask for some proof.

This is of course ignoring the fact that a shelter would be permitted to eject such a man (once identified), whereas they were not permitted to eject men-identifying as women under the Obama-era rules. And that if official documents correctly reflected sex (as they should) this abuse would be far harder.

Yep and what about everywhere else? The precedents for societies where people have to carry documents everywhere proving stuff about themselves are generally quite bad.

If Breitbart reported that Ben Carson thinks people should be kind to animals would you start torturing puppies?

You can agree with people on some issues and not on others. You can even agree with the outcome when you know the sentiment behind it was disagreeable.

This line is getting desperately thin. Breitbart is not about fostering kindness and understanding, and the ends do not justify the means because the ends are ultimately determined by the means. I've been watching this board make more and more disturbing moral compromises in the service of its obsession, in league with people you wouldn't touch with a bargepole on any other issue, so don't lecture me about tribalism.

Most trans people don't pass.

Can you seriously not see the flaw of reasoning in this statement? Seriously?

It's clearly a huge problem, what with the significant proportion of female born people attacking women in female spaces and elsewhere. Not a week goes by that I don't hear of a woman, identifying as a man, attacking other women.

/fairy stories to get women to relinquish all their boundaries.

And can we just point out who has come on a thread about women being allowed to retain a small amount of single sex spaces and presented it as a bad thing because they don't like the politics of the man who protected those spaces.

Fuck that. Women first. Always.

See this is the problem that we face on terms of left v right which was brought up at the WPUK meeting on Monday. The left has badly let women down by pandering to the trans ideology so we are now in the uncomfortable position of having to align ourselves to the right on certain issues in order to protect women’s rights.

I've been watching this board make more and more disturbing moral compromises in the service of its obsession

Says the side that are happy for any woman or girl, no matter how vulnerable, to be collateral damage in order to further an agenda of male sexual rights.

The precedents for societies where people have to carry documements everywhere proving stuff about themselves are generally quite bad
You mean like when people have to show a document to prove they're old enough to buy alcohol or lottery tickets? Doesn't seem to cause any problems.