Martina Navratilova to front BBC1 transgender athletes doc

[EweSurname]

I knew she was making a documentary but I didn't know it was for the BBC. Bit wary now of what she'll be allowed to say.

www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcasting/navratilova-to-front-bbc1-transgender-athletes-doc/5139862.article#.XOav7YCjPkg.twitter

The tennis star and gay rights campaigner is to front Brook Lapping’s 60-minute doc Trans Athletes: A Fair Playing Field?, which will air next month.

In February, Navratilova was roundly criticised by trans and equality activists for stating that allowing transgender women to compete in women’s sporting tournaments was “insane and cheating”. She subsequently said she would do more research on the matter.

For the doc, Navratilova will speak with the athletes, scientists and sporting officials at the forefront of the debate, including former Olympic swimmer Sharron Davies, who said in March that transgender athletes could “ruin women’s sport”.

She will also meet trans medical physicist and former runner Joanna Harper, who will explain how her run times dropped by more than 10% following her transition.

I am going to watch this programme. I wouldn't class myself as a feminist particularly (although I'm sure I agree with feminist views anyway naturally). But even I just look at what Martina said that sparked this off and see that she's right. But surely that's just logical? And I can't really see how her saying what she did makes her transphobic?

I normally post on the Tele section but there was no thread in there

What I wonder about the "more research" bi is, if there is really a need for the kid of research they are talking about, on what basis do they ban various substances? And how do they justify sex segregation at all?

If they are going to take the approach that they need to do studies to justify this stuff then they should be backtracking on a lot of policies.

Research which shows the sporting advantage gained by having gone through male puberty and whether it can realistically be brought down by hormone therapy.

More research to show that men have testicles.

Has anyone listened to the American podcaster, Joe Rogan, on this issue.

It's so interesting.

He wondered perhaps if elite sports is just something TW have to give up if they really want to transition. Just play or whatever as a hobby...

Is McKinnon trolling?

Either a medical condition Known as autism, or a deliberate attempt at furthering their own ego and attacking women.
They obviously do hate women, judging by their twitter posts over the last year.

Tbh the whole thing is just weird where women are having t9 defend their right to be women in women’s sport

Weird weird

But surely that's just logical? And I can't really see how her saying what she did makes her transphobic?

Accusations of transphobia are massively illogical because none of it makes sense.
Many, many people are like you and haven't grasped how awful the whole thing is.
Please read up on any trans threads you can find on MN.

It's no coincidence this comes just as womens sport is starting to get proper attention. Sponsorship deals, coverage on tv etc.

Women have fought so hard for this.

It starts to happen and bingo. Why should they have that?

I think the first time many people read 'They said that transwomen have male bodies. Textbook transphobia' or similar, there is a 'Huh?' moment. A kind of bafflement similar to reading about young earth creationists. That there is a group of people who appear to live in an entirely different reality, where doing presentational and/or physical things to yourself changes who you actually are. Where the goalposts are suddenly the shape of a basketball hoop, but you're expected to behave as if you can still play football using them.

I did wonder what my dear friend Rachel would have to say.

Hope you can get over the crushing disappointment of not being all that.

Ever affectionately,
Your "Shitbag"

I enjoyed the responses on that Ellis Cashmore thread very much.

^ Twitter thread

@MinecraftMother [b] He wondered perhaps if elite sports is just something TW have to give up if they really want to transition. Just play or whatever as a hobby...[/b]

I've thought this from when I first learnt about this crap. We can't always have what we want. Or is that just women?

What I was trying to say @Ereshkigal is that it's bloody obvious that this deference to feelz gives rise to grossly unfair outcomes in sport and that the only way it will be stopped now is by hard irrefutable evidence that states the obvious. Until then we have half arsed unscientifically scrutinised research holding sway in much the same way as anti-vaccine bollocks was allowed to take hold in the public consciousness.

TRAs are saying the programs was “horrifically transphobic” and BBC is “spewing hatred”... what bit are they talking about, does anyone know (not in UK).

Doesn’t BBC have 450 personnel who are TW, I can’t see BBC “spewing hated” towards BGT people.

Women are just not allowed anything of their own. Men will always find a way to barge in and take over.

It's not that big an ask to have "woman" respected as a biological and legal category, is it??

I don't think think men can handle the idea of me in lipstick and a skirt playing men's sport (because women always wear skirts and heavy make up) so instead of striving to break down gender stereotypes I'll re-enforce them (crying uncontrollably at Disney films anyone) and instead of asking men to be more understanding and kinder I demand that women are put at risk of physical injury, have their space invaded and have zero chance of being able to win. 🙄 Women do worse then men because they think they are weaker/slower but hormone treatment make a trans atlete weaker/slower (or does it just make them think they are in their new feeble lady brain). Not nearly enough about the dangers to women. I can but hope that the Loughborough study proves unequivocally that there is a legacy benefit of having been through male puberty but I would question how "oh I can't do it with my weak lady body" will be mitigated.

The "hormones made me cry at Disney films" was pretty pathetic. Martina's face at that gem was a picture.

Why are these members of society exempt from being told 'oh well, you can't always have everything you want?'

The time and money being expended on these jokers is crazy.

Not sure Owl was watching the same documentary as everyone else.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/28/martina-navratilova-trans-athletes-sport-bbc-documentary

Hugely disappointing that Martina agreed to that conclusion because of course that is now what is being focused on despite the overwhelming evidence that this is deeply unfair and offensive to women.

Was it Ben Goldacre's "Bad Science" that contained the withering takedown of that annoyingly bland, crappy phrase "More research is needed"?

I have actually never seen narcissism on the same scale as McKinnon's before (perhaps I'm just lucky). It's almost impressive, how out of touch with reality McKinnon is.

I've had a bit of a rethink on this having calmed down and I appreciate that Martina has a BBC contract and did what she could (I hope) within the limits of the doc. Martina probably doesn't need the money and she would of course get work elsewhere but perhaps she felt she could make some points and trans-peak some TV license holders if she stayed more or less in the middle.

I'm still disappointed as so much more could have been covered but there is a high % of trans employees at the beeb (especially in commissioning) so I don't see the counter-doc coming from them, or any other broadcaster right now. We can wait but I think we all know how that 5 year study from Loughborough will turn out.

I don't want it to be but I do feel like Women's sport is dead.

We can wait but I think we all know how that 5 year study from Loughborough will turn out.
Do we know who's funding it?