We've never believed in silencing debate....

[truthisarevolutionaryact]

says the Scottish trans alliance ... in an article explaining why Meghan Murphy should not have been allowed to speak to the Scottish parliament. Apparently they believe in "honest constructive discussions" - as long as people use their allowed language, adhere to their beliefs and accept their false views of history and reality.

It's frightening how little self awareness they have.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-people-and-feminists-should-be-working-together-thdfslkz3?shareToken=734ba5639a43cba8820da78716b8ad76

There should be an if in there

Thank you all. I have found all the responses helpful in assessing the ability of the gender-critical diaspora, as represented by this sample, to engage with respectful debate about an important clash of views.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You're not a 1950s anthropologist taking notes on the isolated tribe, dear. Self awareness is not your strongest suit, is it?!

the gender-critical diaspora

Well I've heard of the Irish diaspora. Had to check how this might apply to feminists.

'Diaspora - the dispersion or spread of any people from their original homeland.'

Is someone trying to sound too educated, perhaps?

Somehow I'm reminded of this character

I love it when someone whose opinion I don't care about assesses my ability to discuss the removal of my own rights and those of other women. Reminds me that there is so much in this world that I can safely ignore and go about my business.

former editor who is suing the Times is being represented by a barrister named Robin Moira Wright

just FYI

as this is about an article in the Times

What Robin seems to be ignoring is that GC people are allies with many trans people such as Miranda who post in here in support of basic common sense.

I think that unfortunately in the future we will gain more allies there from those who have detransitioned and want to speak out against the shit show lack of safeguarding with regards to children at Tavistock/ in school transitioning etc. I hope that more of those people who actually live as women and believe they are need to act like actual women. That means standing up for children and protecting them.

That's very interesting, BernardBlacksWineIcelolly.

former editor who is suing the Times is being represented by a barrister named Robin Moira Wright

I'd expect a barrister to have a better grasp of the English language than the person posting on here.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly

former editor who is suing the Times is being represented by a barrister named Robin Moira Wright

Isn't that fascinating!

We're all quaking in our sensible shoes, I'm sure.

When I spent time with barristers I was often struck by their elegance of expression and precision in the use of language. I'm baffled by RobinMoiraWhite's choice of the word diaspora and find myself wondering what meaning was intended.

One of my brothers is called Robin, incidentally. It's a man's name IME.

Thank you all. I have found all the responses helpful in assessing the ability of the gender-critical diaspora, as represented by this sample, to engage with respectful debate about an important clash of views.

So you came here solely to use women for your own personal reasons?

Thank you . Anyone reading this is going to see precisely how the kind of TW pushing this agenda uses women for their own purposes without the faintest conscience, sees women as a subclass that there is no need to treat with any kind of courtesy or as real people, has no ability whatsoever to listen and engage with anyone who is not sycophantic and following a set script, and has no ability to participate in any kind of discussion. And the pompous, arrogance of manner and inability to communicate in plain layman's terms compared to women willingly offering straight forward issues to discuss backed up with facts, demonstrating a whole lot of male socialisation and misogyny.

Great evidence as to what women's rights are so very much under threat from.

Oh and please do copy and paste where you felt you engaged with respectful debate?

What you actually mean by 'respectful debate' is women doing what they're told and treating you in the manner which you expect, instead of like a real person. Certainly not to treat you as they would treat another woman, take a look on AIBU some time to see how women talk to another woman who is behaving badly.

You see your relationship with women as a superior, entitled to control, to assess and observe, to order and control and set policy for. What the flaming hell do you think is in that for women that they should line up and co operate? With all due respect, fuck that.

The core issues still remain.
Women are being actively silenced and expected to concede all of our sex based rights without argument. We are expected to stand by and watch the evidenced undermining of safeguarding for children. We are expected to ignore the rise of ROGD in teenagers via online influence. We are expected to stand by as the Karen White's of the world assault vulnerable women in prison and elsewhere. And no one may challenge self ID despite the evidenced dangers it poses - 'acceptance without exception' as Stonewall says.
I have always used people's personal pronouns - and will continue to do so - I see it as a matter of respect. But this situation is not about an individual's feelings - legitimate as they may be. This is about a systematic and wholesale change in society which is being imposed with no consultation and agreement.
And that's why the original article was so ironic - the #nodebate approach from the Scottish Trans Alliance. Feminists, work with us but only on our terms of complete compliance and only certain women and we won't debate this or that...... and on it goes.

11/2/2019 Times article by Elizabeth Burden

"Government funding ‘biased to trans activists’"
(extract)
Transgender activists get hundreds of thousands of pounds a year from the Scottish government, which some women’s campaigners said was evidence of bias.

Of more than £5 million allocated for equalities groups in 2017-18, LGBT groups received £883,800, including £200,000 for the Scottish Trans Alliance (STA). Only women’s groups that support proposals to allow people to self-identify their gender without a medical diagnosis received funding. (continues)

Some women’s groups argue that Ms Sturgeon is siding with transgender activists despite her plea to “depolarise” the gender debate. Women and Girls in Scotland, which opposes self-identification and trans women having access to women-only services, said: “It is important that the government develops its understanding of why alternative views nearly always come from organisations and groups that do not receive government funding.”

The STA co-wrote guidelines given to schools in 2017 that some women’s groups claim prioritise transgender children’s welfare over that of other children, such as by advising that girls who felt uncomfortable because of the presence of a trans child in a changing room should change elsewhere.

Members of Holyrood’s culture committee concluded this week that not all women’s groups had been adequately consulted about the inclusion of a third “non-binary” answer to the sex question in the census." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-funding-biased-to-trans-activists-592wjkkkt?shareToken=2b65f350fdf9f16a4c81c865360ca273

Even that article dodges round the main pint, doesn’t it? It isn’t ‘girls who feel uncomfortable about a trans child’ but ‘girls who feel uncomfortable about a male child’.

Girls who feel uncomfortable changing with a transboy might also need to discuss that, but it’s a different issue.

Even that article dodges round the main pint, doesn’t it? It isn’t ‘girls who feel uncomfortable about a trans child’ but ‘girls who feel uncomfortable about a male child’.

Girls who feel uncomfortable to be in changing rooms with boys are behaving in a perfectly appropriate way.

Boys should not be in girls changing rooms.

Adults should not be gaslighting girls that there is anything wrong with objecting to a boy being in a girls single-sex changing room.

Single sex changing rooms provide girls with safety, dignity & privacy.
Mixed sex changing rooms do not.

Aduts should not be pushing policies which enable some boys to use girls changing rooms. THis breaches Safeguarding frameworks

In the US this is going to the Supreme Court:
'Meet Alexis Lightcap'

"In 2016, the Boyertown Area School District granted students access to use the locker rooms and restrooms of the opposite sex.

Alexis chose to join a lawsuit to stand up for herself and the privacy rights of all students at Boyertown High."

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=ItYix6u2sVk

...deny my right to use the facilities society has decided I should have, such as my right to use the bathroom of my affirmed gender should I visit premises under your control.

Stonewall says that ‘a trans person’s rights are not the same as everyone else’s‘ under the Equality Act, which is why they are campaigning for change:

The Equality Act also allows trans people to be treated differently in particular situations. When applying for certain jobs, participating in sport, accessing single-sex services, serving in the Armed Forces, or attending school a trans person’s rights are not the same as everyone else’s.

Source: A Vision For Change, which ‘underpins Stonewall’s work for trans equality until 2022‘

www.stonewall.org.uk/vision-change

But a mans rights are not the same as a woman’s in those cases either.

Honestly, the language confusion is starting to seem the only bloody reason anyone expects these males/nonbinaryfolks/transwomen to be in women’s facilities in the first place. They have the same rights as all men. That’s actually a pretty decent deal.

Yes Dodo!

I thought it was interesting to see that Stonewall think that the Equality Act means that trans people do not have the ‘right’ to access single-sex services.

We’re often told that the Equality Act means the opposite.

I'm in this for women's rights and child protection. If that's disrespectful, then I regard being disrespectful as a primary virtue.

This.

Women are being actively silenced and expected to concede all of our sex based rights without argument. We are expected to stand by and watch the evidenced undermining of safeguarding for children.

I've been wracking my brains trying to think of another time I've been ordered to make a leap of faith and believe or repeat a lie.
I can now be ordered to do that, even by a judge in a courtroom.

Trans activists need to wake up. As easily as you have erased my rights, yours will be gone when you are no longer useful.