We've never believed in silencing debate....

[truthisarevolutionaryact]

says the Scottish trans alliance ... in an article explaining why Meghan Murphy should not have been allowed to speak to the Scottish parliament. Apparently they believe in "honest constructive discussions" - as long as people use their allowed language, adhere to their beliefs and accept their false views of history and reality.

It's frightening how little self awareness they have.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-people-and-feminists-should-be-working-together-thdfslkz3?shareToken=734ba5639a43cba8820da78716b8ad76

When Bob Runcie met JP2, he called him "His Holiness" and was in return recognised as "Archbishop, Beloved Brother in Christ..."

It remained the case that the CofE says the Pope is the Bishop of Rome and nothing more, and the RC Church says that Anglican holy orders remain 'absolutely null and utterly void.'

Leap of faith. Such an appropriate phrase for someone trying to proselytize for their neo-religion to use.

It is no more acceptable to misgender a trans person than it is to use pejorative terms for persons of other races or religions or the disabled.

Why?

Calling a male person 'he' is pretty customary, though possibly not what is wanted. But neither he nor she is an insult. It's really not like the terms cretin or wop or whatever. It's more like randomly insisting we rename orange as 'blue' (and then arguing that there is plenty of spectral uncertainty and some orange things do have blue speckles...)

But Robin's met the Pope R0wantrees. Show some respect!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly The Pope has met lots of people, if Im required to do this I may need a list.

I might call the Pope 'Holy Father', because I have certain beliefs about his position in my faith. I genuflect before the tabernacle in a Catholic Church because I believe the Almighty God is present there.
I wouldn't expect the same from someone who didn't share my beliefs. And to expect them to do so before I would accept that they had a legitimate voice in objecting to their rights being removed is unthinkable.

R0

It's disrespectful and unreasonable for male people to enter women's sex segregated spaces. It's disrespectful and unreasonable for male people to demand women refer to them by mis-sexing.

End of.

Now, let's forget the disrespectual and unreasonable plopping demands and get back to Jacky being really interesting on GRA detail! Much more interesting than anything disrespectful and unreasonable!

I dunno Lang, you don't get to hear about a day out with the Pope every day. That's big.

I dunno Lang, you don't get to hear about a day out with the Pope every day. That's big.

LOL.

I once met His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth, Baron Greenwich, Royal Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Extra Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, Grand Master and First and Principal Knight Grand Cross of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, Knight of the Order of Australia, Additional Member of the Order of New Zealand, Extra Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Royal Chief of the Order of Logohu, Extraordinary Companion of the Order of Canada, Extraordinary Commander of the Order of Military Merit,Canadian Forces Decoration, Lord of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Member of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, Personal Aide-de-Camp to His Majesty King George VI, Lord High Admiral of the United Kingdom

it was a long time ago.

Unless the gender-critical cannot find it in themselves to respect others by their behaviour in such common courtesies, then they will always be isolated. A leap of faith and behaviour is required to join the debate.

Ah. So basically: Women, if you're really good girls and do exactly what we tell you while treating your betters exactly in the manner they subscribe, we men MAY then allow you to join the conversation on who you are, what you are, what you can be called and what you're allowed to do.

This is so misogynistic and condescending that it's actually funny.

Embarrassingly, I was once in the company of the Duchess of York! Not for long though .. I scarpered as soon as the formalities were done.

I once met Brian Cant. That's the bast I've got I'm afraid. I was 8 and absolutely thrilled - play away was my absolute favourite thing.

I would probably have called Brian 'Your Holiness' if he'd asked to be fair....

Bernard, I am in awe! Brian Cant was a god when I was a child.

Well, I once met Paul Newman.

AND my daughter was cast as Princess Diana in her Year 1 class play. She said, "Mummy, I'm going to need a very big hat."

Michelleoftheresistance the contempt and disdain for women and girls positively gushes from their every utterance.

A leap of faith and behaviour is required to join the debate.

Why is someone else controlling my debate about my rights, and demanding my submission before I am allowed to speak?

Unless the gender-critical cannot find it in themselves to respect others by their behaviour in such common courtesies, then they will always be isolated. A leap of faith and behaviour is required to join the debate.

I find it utterly amazing how someone can criticize GC feminists like this, because one or two GC people used bad words or whatever, whilst totally ignoring the fact that a ridiculous amount of TRAs are relentless, aggressive and physically violent. That women get told off for not being nice enough whilst actual violence is excused/not mentioned..well its the ole misogyny again isn't it really.

As has been pointed out - the irony of plopping onto a thread titled '"we never believed in silencing debate" to do precisely that. To silence women by instructing us that unless we comply with the linguistic demands of born men, women may not join the debate about our collective eradication, the grooming and abuse of children and the demands of the self identified to access vulnerable women in prisons, hospital wards, receiving intimate care and when undressing.

How can we engage with such narcissistic and tone deaf demands?

I decided age 10 that I was an atheist, and have no use for a god. But I still refer to our village priest as ‘Reverend’, and, on the occasion I met the Pope on a State vist as ‘your holiness’

However I do agree with this. Trans people I know in real life I use the opposite pronoun for them because..well why not. But, I would never ever call a rapist she, and this seems to be a huge issue for TRAs. Kicking off when murderers and rapists murder or rape..but kicking off that they were 'misgendered' rather than like, acknowledging the vile crimes they committed.

Trans people I know in real life I use the opposite pronoun for them because..well why not

Pronouns are generally used in the absence of the person concerned. Hence they would not hear you use those pronouns.

In a conversation with that person one would use "you".

If in a group where that person is present you would use that person's name.

The whole pronouns issue is bogus!

The friends and relatives of both the TW I know refer to them by male pronouns, because they're male and no one's likely to forget it. You're right, Jacky. It's bogus.

Exactly so, Prawn ... I always use 'he' for any and all male transitioners, regardless of whether I refer to a homosexual transsexual [HSTS] or an autogynephile [AGP].

And, if anyone has taken the trouble to read through both of the threads written by the Trans Widows, my use of 'he' is based on deep respect for these women and their children.

[1] www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

[2] www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3471122-trans-widows-escape-committee-2-the-trans-widows-strike-back

The difference is that people are actually suggesting than in the case of people who are pretending to be the opposite sex it should be against the law not to use the pronouns they have chosen for themselves.

This would never, ever happen with any other honorific titles (unless you were unfortunate enough to live under Saddam Hussein or someone). Call Fr Smith Harry instead of Fr Smith? Nothing, he probably wouldn’t even be offended.

If I called the Queen “Mrs Windsor” I would be making a political point and refusing to say ‘Your Majesty” would be an indication that I do not regard the monarchy as a legitimate institution. Would I be hounded on Twitter or go to jail for it? Never in a million years.