Stephen Fry backs P Tatchell's call to revise sex education

[Imnobody4]

www.petertatchellfoundation.org/stephen-fry-backs-our-call-to-revise-sex-education/
I think this sounds reasonable but still some niggling suspicion. IF the quality and calibre of the training and trainers were beyond reproach, if there was a broad consultation beyond just LBGT I might accept it.
I'm pleased to see they acknowledge asexual. What do you think?

Have you actually looked at the detail of what he's proposing should be taught? Twitter is alight with this at the moment.

twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1126844256575000576

It's about sexualising children from the earliest possible age.

I remind everyone that Tatchell has previously said that not all adult sexual relationships with children are harmful...

I am not sure where P Tatchell's qualifications in educating children about sex lie, nor Stephen Fry's for that matter.

Can't see any teachers putting themselves in the position of teaching what he proposes either.

If any teachers did (and speaking as a former headteacher)it would set off massive alarm bells for me.

Almost all teachers hate teaching sex ed - the science staff are usually all right with the biology part, but nobody wants to go near the relationships stuff.

Tatchell's getting his arse handed to him on a plate on that twitter thread, mind you! The replies are not pulling any punches.

Would this subject be examined, or is it all coursework?

I remind everyone that Tatchell has previously said that not all adult sexual relationships with children are harmful...

So not somebody who should be anywhere near sex education for children then.

How does 14 - Respect For Sexual Diversity
Our desires and temperaments are not the same. There is no ‘one-size-fits-all’ when it comes to sex, love and relationships... fit in with cringeworthy monthly lessons on sexual technique and masturbation in a mixed sex setting, deliberately disregarding the backgrounds of the pupils involved?

What a creepy load of grooming bullshit. I expect nothing better from Tatchell nowadays.

Didn't Fry opine that the only reason women have sex is to get men to commit, or some such nonsense? Why is he in any way an authority to influence anyone's introduction to sex ed?

This whole insistence that no child is allowed to opt out and parents cannot refuse makes me furious.
It is just not ok to expose children to adult sexual crap. We've all pretty much managed to suss out our sex lives without being taught more than just the biological basics! Fuck off Peter Tatchell.

Yes I know I'm very conflicted. We do need to talk to older teens in a more upfront way. I saw a doc with a Danish teacher running a class in the UK. She was great encouraged openness and challenged the boys in a very frank session.
Peggy Orenstein: What young women believe about their own sexual pleasure
go.ted.com/Cy26
Her research shows young women consider sex good if they haven't been hurt or humiliated. We rally need to do better than this.
I agree that Neither Tatchell or Fry are experts but surely we need to find a feminist approach. I'm not keen on outsourcing to pornographers. I just despair.

I did the whole sex education and relationships talks myself with both my son and daughter once we got warning that they were going to get it at school anyway, but I don’t find it cringey at all, I’m quite matter of fact about it all. My kids once they had the lessons at school thought it was hilarious because everyone including the teacher looked so uncomfortable about it all, and at home, we are all quite matter of fact. Although when a PP said about science teachers managing well with the subject, my background is in biological and medical sciences, so that may be why I don’t cringe about it.

Of course we need to have a decent, genuinely age appropriate approach to this kind of education. Nothing I've seen from Tatchell gives me the slightest confidence he actually understands a) the delicate complexities of doing that in a multicultural society and b) what is age appropriate.

Bring on the discussion about a great SRE curriculum that teaches kids that boundaries are sacrosanct, and none more so than sexual ones, all about respect, and yes, there is probably a place for discussions about the distortions involved in pornography. I'm afraid I just don't believe a man who thinks a nine year old can consent to sex with an older man knows anything at all about any of that.

One of the many quotes from the Tatchell foundation:
Millions of young people enter adulthood emotionally and sexually illiterate
Of course they are sexually and emotionally illiterate. They are children. The entry to adulthood is all about emotional and sexual exploration. The idea that schools should be places where creepy adults lacking in boundaries "teach" children about sex is so inappropriate.
But - this is where we are - now that the porn merchants and predators have been given so much power by the government and institutions, I fear that they are pushing at an open door

Exactly just one of the reasons I wanted to be the one to speak to my children about sex and relationships and not someone else, I have to agree that school is not the place for these discussions, I agree with you both Floral and Truth, but I am afraid that’s the way our education system is going, which is why I got in there first, but I can appreciate mine is a less conventional view, and most parents are going to avoid the discussion if they possibly can because of the cringe factor.

I read something the other day, maybe in THe Guardian, where some guy was lamenting that porn was a bad teacher about sex, but what else was there?

I see this attitude a lot, as if people need to have instruction about how to have sex in an enjoyable fun way. And I am very ????

Sure, there are people who run into sexual problems. And at one time they said nothing, which was too bad, or they asked their friends, which I think is as likely to be a good approach as any. But the vast majority of people learn just fine with no help from books or porn or anything else. They are bad at it in the beginning, and so long as they care about their partner, they get better at it as time goes on.

People who have less exposure to "lessons" or even don't have many partners don't report worse sex lives.

Do kids really need masturbation lessons? It’s not exactly quantum mechanics, is it? Just don’t get blisters on your hands and avoid hoover attachments, no matter how tempting they might appear.

I've always been frank with my children, tailored to exactly where they were, about sex, both from a basic mechanics aspect, and from an emotional aspect. I don't blush easily, and this attitude has thankfully passed on to them as they are all very open with me and trust me to tell the them the truth and always be a listening ear.

I do think there is a place for sex and relationships education in schools because not every parent is as confident as I am about it, but it is an extraordinarily delicate balance to get right, and so many of the suggestions in Tatchell's document take none of that into account. Its just starry eyed naivete about a sexual utopia on the one hand, coupled with a seedy sense of prurience on the other.

And yeah, wrt the masturbation stuff, I suggest the first thing that they teach pupils when a teacher asks them what gives them sexual pleasure when they're on their own is how to firmly say "Fuck off and mind your own business you creep"

Nothing new under the sun. Back in the day, we had The Little Red School Book which recommended taking drugs and experimenting with sex from an early age, and the highly recommended guide "Make It Happy," which said sexual experimentation between brothers and sisters was 'normal.'

The only words that need to be said, over and over are Age-Appropriate.

E.G, small kids have not the slightest interest in how the baby got in there. But they really want to know how it gets out.

I note that one of Tatchell's views is that groups must be mixed sex and not single sex. And this is the issue with allowing the 'over invested' adults access to what happens in schools - it becomes an ideological issue for adults, ignoring the needs of children.
I've taught SRE in a number of schools and you need to be sensitive to many factors - the religious / cultural sensitivities of each group. The class dynamics, any sex imbalances, bullying / silencing cultures that can develop in a class as well as the tricky issue of gaining the confidence of parents. In one school, single sex groups were important in order to gain parental agreement. In another school, it was a mix of some single sex and some mixed sex discussions. There's no right answer.
What matters is that the children's needs are at the centre - not the demands of adults with dodgy histories.

Please watch this video. I dont support Tatchell but neither do I think we can just ignore the reality of young people's lives, particularly when young girls are opting out of womanhood and suffering mental health problems.
Peggy Orenstein: What young women believe about their own sexual pleasure

go.ted.com/Cy26

This is a Safeguarding nightmare. 16 year olds are immature and I don't know any teacher who'd think it appropriate to demonstrate masturbation to a mixed-sex group in the UK. As Peter Tatchell is promoting this, I'm seeing more red flags than a Chairman Mao May Day rally.

No is not a strong enough response to this proposal.

Given that most kids nowadays get their sex education from porn and there are concerning surveys about young people's attitudes to and understanding of sex and, in particular, women's pleasure, I think there is clearly quite a lot of room for formal education to improve the information (and lives) of young people in this regard. Very few parents seem to do a good job and having a curriculum for the whole age group that emphasizes consent and mutual pleasure rather than scattered ideas from different parents will help with issues around peer pressure - which are a big deal when it comes to sexual relationships.

The details Thatchel outlines in his plan look like a reasonable starting point to me. There are issues - it seems to lack any respect for other viewpoints, doesn't seem to acknowledge the complexity of sexual feelings or experience and Thatchel's "opt out" idea shows his contempt for those with views different from his own. But I quite like some of it - emphasizing mutual consent, covering alternatives to penetration, etc. The devil's in the details, of course.

Who is suggesting ignoring the reality of young people's lives? This whole thread is full of very specific issues in young people's lives that are relevant to these proposals.

What matters is that the children's needs are at the centre - not the demands of adults...

Gosh, yes: This

Also remember this is the Sensible Generation. The rates of teenage pregnancy have fallen like a stone in recent years across the developed world in countries with very divergent SexEd policies.