Judge over rules social services concerns

[ScottishDoll]

that parents are filling child's head with gender nonsense because it's "complex" and "cutting edge"?!?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7015633/Judge-backs-parents-sent-transgender-son-4-school-girls-uniform.html

Sounds like a weird case this. Social services dropped it but the family insisted on a public hearing...

So the six year sibling old thinks the boy is. Is a girl and will grow up to be a woman?

What four year old even makes decisions about what they want for tea or which colour shoes they want to wear?

What an idiot. Wonder who the expert witness was.

Very worrying 😕

I can see that parents could buy into the gender dysphoria theory and be genuinely trying to do their best for the child...

Hence the need for scientific research into the phenomenon.

It is quite worrying that children are not given the time to make up their minds over a long period of time before making a commitment to present as the opposite sex. It would be difficult to go back if they felt that it was something that had been decided for them.

(Trying to be diplomatic)

I thought this would be the other way round.

Sounds for once like social services were being sensible. As I've said before, if your child is too young to sit down and watch a video of a orchiectomy and penile inversion/ double mastectomy, radical hysterectomy, skin graft and phalloplasty, and is too young to discuss the impact this might have on their future sexual function (which basically means prior to age 16), they are too young for you to do anything other than say "dress how you want dear, wear your hair however you want, play with whatever toys you want, take part in whatever sports/hobbies you fancy, and we'll back you 100%, but decisions about being trans are adult decisions."

Looks like that judge watched the dreadful BBC Mermaids-inspired drama and has based his whole understanding on that.

Think this is the actual judgment - www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2019/30.html

So it's not just one child, it's two children who have been socially transitioned somewhere between the ages of 4 and 7!!! And the judge doesn't think there's anything odd about this...

When DD was 4 she thought she might like to try being a boy.

Of course she also wanted to try being Peppa Pig, a puppy, a tiny baby, a 'very old woman' and a Tyrannosaurus rex, so....

This is so bonkers.

I fancied being a nun.

I am not a nun...

4 years old! What the hell do 4 year olds know about gender identity?

That judgement makes for worrying reading.

The judge sounds like an idiot. The social workers involved will now have to sit back and watch while this child's life is fucked up. When it all goes tits up it won't be the parents, expert witnesses or the judge who're held to account but social workers. Ffs

Katie Alcock Senior Lecturer in Psychology , Lancaster University talk at the recent Lancaster Resisters event, 'Gender Identity & Safeguarding Children' is relevent.
She illustrates well-established understanding about how young children understand their sex.
She commented that psychiatrists & medical doctors don't typically get this standard child development training.

(extract)
I had a question at the end about the clash between the DSM5 diagnostic criteria and these well-replicated findings on sex/gender constancy.
I answered in relation to psychiatrists. These medical doctors rarely have a degree in straight Psychology
Typical child development isn't much taught to medical students (in fact I was one briefly). A psychiatrist with an interest in autism may well educate themselves on all the current theories, and a delay in the ability to distinguish between appearance and reality is one facet.
But (though I don't know all about psychiatrist training) you don't always get every relevant finding brought up even in straight psychology degrees - we simply know too much about how children think to fit it all in!"

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1122570548549226496.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3551115-Gender-Identity-Safeguarding-Children-and-Young-People-For-Women-Lancashire?pg=2

Dr Pasterski's evidence was influential:

(extract from finding)
"Dr Pasterski is a chartered psychologist and gender specialist with 23 years of experience in conducting gender identity assessments in children and adolescents. In her report she identifies that there have been recent changes to the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria and that research on mental health and transgender children have shed light onto critical historical misunderstandings related to clinical presentation in gender dysphoria. Firstly, that children who present with gender dysphoria are likely to desist in their cross-gender identification and secondly that gender dysphoria is inherently associated with high rates of comorbid psychopathology. She notes both have been shown to be false. She identifies that these misunderstandings arise from two particular factors. Firstly earlier studies which showed that up to 80% of children desist in gender dysphoria included children who presented with gender incongruent behaviour but did not necessarily state the wish to be or that they were the other gender. Thus children displaying gender variance may have been wrongly diagnosed with gender dysphoria. As a result of this treatment protocols previously incorporated a watch and wait approach which had prevented truly dysphoric children from transitioning which had likely resulted in increased rates of depression and anxiety. As Dr Pasterski puts it 'Put simply, many who have shown to desist were likely not dysphoric and psychopathology in those who persisted was likely due to forbidden expression of their true gender identity.' Current guidance suggests that supporting a child who clearly and consistently states that they wish to be the other gender in their preferred gender role is associated with improved mental health and well-being." (continues)

Background re above:
www.harleystgenderclinic.com/about

wait what?

So scientific study shows results you don't like - disregard study by discounting most of the subjects picked in the first place!!!

WTF kind of scientific "expert" actually talks like that!?

This is like the argument for transwomen in prisons despite Karen White because White wasn't the right sort of transwoman so doesn't count.

WTF kind of scientific "expert" actually talks like that!?

See link, also:
Recognised Gender Specialist
Gender Recognition Panel
Ministry of Justice, UK

I've read 2/3 of the judgment and I find it very disturbing.

I thought the whole point of family court is that it is private, why is this public?

I knew Pasterski was a familar name -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3481765-Jay-vs-Secretary-of-State-for-Justice-getting-a-GRC-on-appeal-after-panel-says-no-three-times

SS had serious concerns and applied for an order. Dr Pasterski, who denies desistence rates and discounts psychological comorbidites with regards to childhood gender dysphoria, persuaded the judge and SS backed down.

Worrying.