Georgia (USA) makes abortion punishable by life imprisonment.

[Oldstyle]

New legislation HB 481 only allows abortion up to 6 weeks. It has massive consequences for women who get abortions from doctors or miscarry. A woman who seeks out an illegal abortion from a health care provider would be a party to murder, subject to life in prison. And a woman who miscarries because of her own conduct—say, using drugs or alcohol while pregnant—would be liable for second-degree murder, punishable by 10 to 30 years’ imprisonment. Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses.

Even women who seek lawful abortions out of state may not escape punishment. If a Georgia resident plans to travel elsewhere to obtain an abortion, she may be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, punishable by 10 years’ imprisonment. An individual who helps a woman plan her trip to get an out-of-state abortion, or transports her to the clinic, may also be charged with conspiracy to end of the life of a “person” with “full legal recognition” under Georgia law.

This is a shocking assault on women's health, autonomy and reproductive rights. The intention to 'interrogate' women who miscarry to check for 'blame' is inhuman. Apparently 28 other states are intending to follow Georgia's lead.

@Pankhurst2000

What do you think of that suggestion? If men want to have sex, they deposit their sperm and then are made sterile?

You can't do that, the poor men! They may experience minor pain and infringement of their liberties. We can't have that now can we.

Pankhurst I was going to type something worthwhile but you really cannot argue with unequivocal stupidity so get fucked will have to suffice.

It is shocking but I think from reading the Washington post article that it's very likely to be struck out by the State supreme court. These states are hoping to get a case before the federal Supreme Court. Still scary but it isn't actually in force so far.

I'm just horrified by the implications around miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, and so on. Can you imagine how a coercive man, who didn't want a child, could actually induce a miscarriage for the express purpose of punishing a woman? 6 weeks is nothing at all. Many women may have no idea they are pregnant at that point.

Women don't have abortions just because it's an option. If you aren't going to address any of the reasons it happens, and you are actually going to criminalize women to this extremity, your claim to be 'pro life' is hollow.

@cottonwoolmouth You would think the handmaids tale was just a story but the scariest part of it all for me was when I watched a documentary about the author- in her words she had written nothing that women haven't already been put through in recent history! I'm sure it would be on you tube? Truly chilling!

😠 Fucking Georgia

Just going to leave this here (from Tuesday)...

"An American mom today is 50% more likely to die in childbirth than her own mother was," Dr. Neel Shah, a Harvard Medical School obstetrician, told the Associated Press.

www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/more-than-half-of-pregnancy-related-deaths-are-preventable-cdc-says/

Two stories have always stayed with me. The Dr who started practicing just before the 1967 act here and her memories of the ward put aside for those who had to access a backstreet abortion. And the man whose mum, having three children already, one with disabilities, husband gone, no money or energy for another child. She found herself pregnant and had to go to the backstreet. She died leaving three children with no parents. He was well over fifty when he told us his story and you could still hear the emotion. Any attempt to block healthcare of this kind drags us back to those awful days.

Ereshkigal - No. i see why, on occasion it is needed (like happens in the UK), we have had enough serious case reviews into children's deaths that authorities sometimes do need to be involved, even if parents don't want it.

StealthPolarBear - you see my point, hundreds of thousands of girls are terminated every year. Terminations for the health of the mother are still allowed, it just has to be genuine.

Trolls - men shouldn't have access to women's bodies, thats crazy. there are plenty of ways to avoid conception when couples are in the 'grey area' around commitment. the impact of pregnancy unequally effects women, this is wrong, a feminist issue and needs addressing - killing people is not an acceptable answer.

night ladies, need to check on the kids and have a glass.

Ah, so if there are 'plenty of ways to avoid conception', that'll be why the US, in conjunction with these draconian laws, will be rolling out massive programmes promoting access to and education about contraception?

That is really terrible.

I don’t see anything we can do about it either

This will be extremely detrimental to the health of all women - there will be a shortage of gynaecologist/obstetricians because I can't see it being at all an attractive specialism for doctors to go into, with their practice being restricted by the law and the constant risk of their practice leading them to end up being prosecuted. Care for ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages. What about the pregnant woman who develops an incidental illness - a simple case of appendicitis may look a lot less simple when the woman is pregnant and the baby could be put at risk. Sometimes pregnant women are diagnosed with cancer and a decision is made to deliver the baby early to expedite treatment. Babies with certain problems can be treated in utero with blood transfusions or laser ablation for twin to twin transfusion for instance - any of these treatments could end up causing a miscarriage and presumably put the doctor at risk of prosecution. They simply won't be able to offer the full range of evidence based best practice treatments.

All women will suffer, directly or indirectly with limited choice and availability of specialist care.

1. This legislation is horrifying, inhumane, and I hope likely to be struck down in the courts soon. (Though no guarantees now that Republicans have engineered a Supreme Court majority).

2. America has gone completely nuts
   America is a truly repulsive excuse for a country.
   The US is a barbaric, unevolved nation.

As an American woman, this hurts. Even from the links presented on this thread, it's very clear that some politicians in some states are hardline anti-choice misogynists, and some politicians in some states are fighting back with everything they've got. We still have a federal system, just as we've had since the inception of our nation. I've heard the current American political situation described as a "Cold Civil War" and unfortunately that feels accurate to me.

The worst among us do not represent us a whole, especially not in these extremely tumultuous times...

This is horrific. Women will not tell anyone they are pregnant including HCP incase they miscarry and end up under investigation.

Many people esp young girls may not realise they are pregnant until after 6 weeks!

So sad and regressive

Pankhurst2000
Whose definition of “mother’s health” are you using? How ill is I’ll enough? Should I have been unable to end my pregnancy at 7 weeks because my life wasn’t immediately in danger? Should I have been made to wait until I went into kidney failure because I was so dehydrated and unable to even drink sips of water? What about waiting until I had to be fed artificially because of malnutrition due to pregnancy sickness? Should I have had to wait until I was suicidal or was the distress of being constantly sick, too sick to eat, to drink, to sleep, to care for my child or even get out of bed enough?

As soon as you start to set conditions and value judgements on who is and isn’t ill enough, virtuous enough, blameless enough to deserve to be able to end a pregnancy they cannot carry on with, you are complicit in the patriarchal oppression of women.

And yes, I feel the weight of my ended pregnancy every day. I feel it when I see my son playing and think of the sibling he would have had who would now be toddling along beside him. I think of it when I see pregnant women, when I see little babies, when my friends have the families they wanted because I know I can’t. It was the hardest decision I ever made. But I know it was the right one. I could not have survived my pregnancy intact and I’m pretty sure my family wouldn’t have either. You seem to be coming at this from some arse about face feminist perspective so I’ll refrain from telling you to fuck off to the far side of fuck and assume you have good intentions. But don’t you fucking dare question the motives or try to guilt trip any woman who has chosen to end a pregnancy they cannot carry on with.

Pretty sure Pankhurst is trolling, but I want to address the whole "when does life begin" thing. It's always trotted out as a gotcha, like if they can prove a fetus or embryo is alive that somehow wins the day. But personally I think the question of whether a fetus is alive and has a right to life is completely irrelevant. The better question is, does someones right to life extend to using another person's body to achieve that? Lets take an example of an adult needing a kidney transplant. They're unambiguously alive - no nit picking over "when life begins" to muddy things up. Does that mean they can take the kidney of whomever they want to stay alive? Of course not. I'll make the example even more relevant - imagine that you woke up and found you had been connected to someone else and were being used for a direct human to human blood transfusion. If you disconnect yourself, that person will die. Does anyone have the right to force you to continue using your body for that transfusion? Would you be a murderer if you refused to continue it? I think not. This whole idea of "when life begins" is a red herring because it doesn't matter. The question isn't "does abortion end a life?" the question is "would a "yes" answer over ride a person's right to bodily autonomy?" "If abortion ends a life does that mean you can force someone to act as a life support system against their will?" I say no. I wouldn't force someone to donate their kidney, I wouldn't force someone to act as the life support system for another adult who definitely has a right to life, so I definitely wouldn't force a woman to act as the life support system for a fetus whose status as "alive" and right to life hasn't even been determined.

Now, for what it's worth I do think there needs to be more of a conversation around abortion and how we can better identify and support women to are being coerced or who are terminating because they believe they have no other choice when actually there's help they could access. And I think abortion regret needs to be talked about more because it's very real. People shut down the voices of women who regret their abortions because they think it's scare mongering or manipulation to dissuade other women from accessing abortions.. But when I had my abortion I was told by everyone what a breeze it was, hardly anyone regretted it, or at worst you might dwell on it for a week or two. In reality I ended up with a deep and debilitating depression which I don't believe will ever truly heal. I get that not everyone experiences this but through online support groups I found that this is a much more common reaction than I'd been lead to believe. Some of the women I met took their own lives over it. Nearly a decade later and I've only just got to the point where I believe that I made the right choice. So yeh, I think that the narrative that abortion is no big deal, just like a tooth extraction etc should be challenged more. But with a view to more people making an informed choice, not taking people's choices away.

I live just outside the capital city Atlanta,Georgia.This governor is setting up for an abortion showdown to go to the US Supreme court in the near future. There is no way anyone who has an abortion or provides for an abortion will be prosecuted because it will be appealed then taken up the chain to the supremes. I have never been pro or anti abortion more in the middle and I will march against Kemp and his extremism btw I voted for challenger Abrams! Please don't think we are all ignorant hillbillies here in Georgia I moved from another state last year

ByGrabthars, I'm still not convinced by the unwilling organ donor argument, but it does remain the strongest pro choice argument, yes.

That caveat aside, your post has my whole hearted agreement.

Hi EKGEMS
Do you know what the general feeling is around this? What do your friends and peers think of it all?

So will those in support of this also be..

In support of making sure a wide range contraception is more available and accessible to women than ever before.

That women who do become accidentally pregnant on low incomes will receive financial support and help with the cost of bringing up their baby

That the men who get women pregnant will be expected to take equal responsibility including financially.

Hmmmmmm let me think

Abortion is a symptom of patriarchy and not a solution to it

I will fix that.
Denial of abortion is a symptom of patriarchy.

Abortion is a result of a more empathetic modern society that realised it would be better off providing abortions legally and safely rather than have women shove poison/alcohol up inside themselves, go to some backstreet "doctor" and risk death, or chuck themselves down the stairs or "fall" off a galloping horse to stop their unwanted pregnancy.

Men no longer have control of women through "no sex before marriage" culture. Women can take the pill. Women can say No now. Women can abort if they are raped. Men have lost control. They hate this. It's all part of the backlash.

If abortion was such a symptom of patriarchy, then surely all of these men in states where abortion is criminalised it would ease up, men would suddenly eg stop paying women for sex, but surprisingly it doesn't happen.
They still pay for sex. The prostitute falls pregnant (which happens frequently because contraception is not 100%).
Why isn't the man punished? Why aren't men punished for getting a woman pregnant with a child she doesn't want? Punished for paying for sex? Why are only the women punished?
Why??
Patriarchy will be your answer here.

The whole "fetus is alive" after 6 or whenever weeks is just basically ideological.
You remove the fetus from the womb at that point it won't be alive will it. It'll be dead. It's part of the mother's body until it can survive on it's own which in some cases can be as early as 21 weeks, I am against late terminations.

We've evolved as a society to enable abortions safely and legally because we (society) realised it was better to do that than have women shove poison / vodka up inside themselves, jump off a galloping horse, throw themselves down the stairs or risk death in other ways including dodgy backstreet doctors to end their unwanted pregnancy.

Men hate the fact they have lost control of women's bodies, through the pill, women saying no, loss of virginial "no sex before marriage" culture, the MAPill and safe abortions. These bills are nothing but a manifestation of the deep resentment men have towards that loss of control.

^
Oh bloody hell I posted the first one but it vanished into thin air so I rewrote it.
Can't be arsed asking MNHQ to remove one so I'll just leave them both up.
Sorry for repetition!

Tbf you made a different point in your second post, so leaving it up makes sense!

I am reminded of this cartoon whenever I read about this type of thing.. not pro life, just pro birth!