Fantastic article by Graham Linehan

[Nephilim1964]

He's taking a break but he's left us with this. I may have cried a little...

medium.com/@glinner/goodbye-to-all-this-bf13c22bf0d3

Wow! The nasty, abusive comments beneath, And people have even posted their image besides these words, as if proud to be associated with such vitriol. No shame whatsoever; along with no critical faculties. The twittersphere is truly toxic. Good job that the battle won't be won there, anyway.

I just hope that him stepping back isn’t seen as a win by the TRA

It will be. But who really cares? The world beyond twitter is where the debate really needs to happen - and it is there that we must focus our attention.

Yep the TRAs aren't making themselves look good in the comments. No actual answer to the article, just abuse

In the Orwellian world of doublespeak 'abuse is good'. They think they look great. Jeez! We shouldn't bother with these people. Not very bright and undeserving of time and attention.

Agree. Twitter is a pointless cesspit for the stupid, abusive and immature. You can't argue with those kind of people, because they're not remotely rational. Many people are just there to troll and/or channel their anger at the world into attacking others, particularly the ones that remind them of their mum and all the terrible injustice they have suffered by not getting their own way in everything ever.

I hope our ruling classes come to realise that, and that the nice well adjusted people stop using it eventually and leave the trolls to it.

I haven't read it, but are we really thanking a man who's decided to stop defending women?

He's just leaving twitter, not the planet. He, like us, will continue to discuss this in everyday life; with our families; neighbours, work colleagues, and on the streets.

Journalists at The Times and at other publications are going to have even more profound an impact on public awareness. Not everyone is on twitter. Most are not.

Thank you for your support Glinner, we hear you and are so glad you heard us - hope you return soon we will miss your voice in the meantime.

Proof that there are brilliant men out there who appreciate the lived experience of women and support women's right to have an opinion, voice their opinion openly and seek support by explaining that experience.

Thank you for hearing us

Well, he's clearly made it an 'announcement' because he'd like to be left alone and not driven to stress related illness by pointing out that this unhinged ideology is entirely wrong and dangerous and who can blame him?

I'd quite like the opportunity to do so myself, but as it's my hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis services, GNC children and ability to name my own self and the causes of my oppression, even if I did make an announcement that I wasn't going to mention it all again, I'd still be dealing with all the consequences.

Glinner has been bold. He's done what decent people should have been doing for a long time. Obviously doing the right thing is always the right thing and shouldn't be condemned. But he is now going to back off and bat away any remaining gadflies, and, like Robert Webb who also partially gets it, indulge in the luxury of being male and able to choose whether or not to engage in this.

And yes, I'm still finding the centering of male voices in this really annoying.

Well, I really disagree with you Lang.

I totally agree with Graham that the message is strongest coming from trans people (of either sex - Rhys McKavanagh is an example of a transman who get it) as it shows that this isn't a matter of trans against non-trans, it is a matter of one ideology against another.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. I'm wondering why it's so vitally necessary to always amplify the voices of trans 'feminine' people when the women involved are concerned with the erosion of women's rights by a group of people who are not women?

Would it be vital to include the voices of white people who really identify with black culture in discussion about whether or not to erode the rights of black people, so long as those white people mostly thought eroding black people's right was a bad thing?

Or would it just be fucking cheeky and quite insultingly missing the point?

The most important thing for me is getting the information out there. Who does it is a relatively minor issue - certainly given the gravity & urgency of the situation. A wide audience needs to be reached, and if that audience can be reached through certain types of channel - then so be it.

I totally agree with Graham that the message is strongest coming from trans people (of either sex - Rhys McKavanagh is an example of a transman who get it) as it shows that this isn't a matter of trans against non-trans, it is a matter of one ideology against another.

Christ on a fucking bike. Way to make my - uncharacteristically kindly spoken - point for me. You're actually saying it's better if male people speak for women. Unfuckingbelievable.

Graham: I hope you are reading. This is exactly why I felt the need to say what I did above. Using male people as appeals to authority in order to tamp down accusations of transphobia leads to exactly this. You see the effect?

My Inner Beryl is rapidly disappearing back to the deep, dark hole in which she is usually kept.

I know he has been unwell and under a lot of pressure. Why make it so official though?

I read it as a public challenge for someone else male to step up and puuuuuulll.

Thank you @Glinner.

Thanks for good work graham, but lucky you can take a break, unfortunately for us it's our life. Battle not over yet so hurry back when you can. Perhaps we should rely on ourselves, allies can only go so far.
There are different kinds of trans, some benign, some toxic. Need to be sure which is which

My workplace lets male-bodied colleagues use our unadapted regular old style non-floor-ceiling-type women’s toilets. The powerlessness I feel about that makes me really appreciate everyone who wades into this shitshow voluntarily.

It is to be expected that any one individual will need to take a break from their (self-generated) position of (welcome) public advocacy. That is different from the fact that women and children can’t take a break from this attack on us.
Not being able to take a break is obviously why all the advocacy is needed... but the baton of those doing that advocacy can still be passed between different individuals.

Self care is necessary for all of us and an in purely campaigning terms a variety of advocates are needed (and preferable in the long run).

It would be massively fucking disappointing if other high profile men don’t step up to support women in the way Glinner has done, but... let’s see.

You're actually saying it's better if male people speak for women

@LangCleg, In fairness to the poster she said it was better if trans people of both sexes spoke out on this. Whether you agree that trans people will accept the message more easily from other trans people is another question.

I don't think it's just trans people who need to hear this message.

I should have added I think the more people who speak out on this the better. Women are the most adversely affected for sure. But denial of science and biology is bad news for everyone.

Absolutely agree. I'm not even sure if committed TRAs are for turning regardless of who speaks to them.

Indeed.

And given trans are currently a very small community, but apparently have the ears of many trans "sympathisers" (the woke I guess), it is arguably those people who are the more significant audience, in numbers and because of their positions.

In fairness to the poster she said it was better if trans people of both sexes spoke out on this.

On what, women's rights & Safeguarding?

I do think it is vital that men and the trans community also speak up about their concerns and safeguarding women's safe spaces - especially because my friends who are trans absolutely dont want to be spoken for by what IME is a very vocal minority of the trans community.

The danger of this vocal minority is that their platform creates an assumption that they speak for the whole trans community when in fact (IME experience at least) many many people within that community are more than understanding about women's concerns, partly because they also know what it feels like to be marginalised and threatened.

This doesn't mean they should speak over or for women and their lived experiences but it's absolutely crucial for voices from all sides speak up for women's rights.

The complaint is not about having lots of voices. The complaint is that the damaging ideology is already damaging the rights and protections of women and girls, which did not fall from the sky, nor were gifted by unexpected benevolence, and it's not ok to be putting the voices of the people being used as a wedge to demolish those rights as the centrepiece of every argument on the topic.

That's the issue here. Glinner is a nice man, and speaking up was the right thing to do. But putting anyone who is not female's voice front and centre is not on. Glinner gets most of this, but his need to show that he's pro trans is the Achilles heel here. The women who have been at this for some time have long ago realized that you don't need to quantify every fair defense of your own rights by adding "I'm pro trans" disclaimers constantly.

We don't need to show that the rights we have already fought for are justified by being mindful of how everyone else is getting along. This is related to 'No is a complete sentence'

'Women must have their rights protected.'

It isn't necessary to add 'people other than women agree this is a good thing.'