Maya Forstater

[DianeBrewster]

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

@LangCleg

And ... ?

I really did have a good chat with the taxi driver..... I was trying to think of something positive to say .

Anyway thanks for all the support. Soooo much appreciated.

You were good. They were rubbish. Well done.

I'm not surprised the best conversation you had was with the taxi driver.
Ordinary people get it, once they know about it.
You raised £60,000 in - what was it, 3 days? That's how much people get it.
Well done for keeping your cool. We're rooting for you.

I really did have a good chat with the taxi driver Try to remember that the people who live outside of the woke BBC bubble have a more realistic view towards what the trans juggernaut is doing to women’s rights.

quite aside from anything else, criticising the content of your tweets and giving you no chance to respond is just very bad manners. I thought better of the BBC (although fuck knows why).

I don’t think the people you were talking to understand why particular groups of people need specific rights and services.

They are completely focused on affirming identity without realising that the point of a protected characteristic is that it allows discrimination.

I don’t have an equal right to use all the seats on the bus, but that isn’t because I’m oppressed, it’s because I am able bodied.

That's an excellent way of framing it, merry. So true.

But I still don’t understand why the panel all started bleating TWAW.

That wasn’t what the discussion should have been about.

It was like they were all so gasping to show their wokieness that they completely missed whole point

And that is mainly because jo coburn led the way with her stupidity and vacuous questions

She paved way on this for how the bleating sheep responded

I think they have to keep bleating it because it's the cornerstone that underpins their whole ideology. At some point it's going to be legally challenged and I think we are seeing the beginnings of that in the sporting world.

Then it's all going to come crashing down quite rapidly and there will be a rush amongst the woke to distance themselves and pretend that's never what they actually meant.

But I still don’t understand why the panel all started bleating TWAW.

Because from their point of view not all humans have equal value. Your value is determined by your membership of a tribe. Anyone can be accepted in the tribe. All that is demanded is loyalty. This is why you can join the 'Womanhood' or the 'Queer' tribe without being female, bisexual or gay. To exile somebody from the tribe is to pretend that they don't exist, or worse, might be a Tory.

On the other hand in a legal system far, far away, we have rights because we are human, but in order to benefit from human rights legislation some people with protected characteristics need additional rights and protections.

They were bleating on about TWAW because they live in a parallel universe.

No longer about facts and information but about personalities and being on trend

I think you're right. Aligned to that is the use of ever younger presenters and commentators, who really don't have much of a clue, and much experience.

I noticed that Molly Scott Cato took control of the direction of the panel discussion to make a party political broadcast about the Green Party's stance on Trans rights. It was at this point that the panel was diverted to talk about the benefits of self i/d, I thought.

It suited her to have a different discussion and to ignore the fact that a woman had lost her livelihood for disagreeing with Scott Cato's own beliefs.

No doubt the Green Party will tweet the clip so that no-one has to watch the programme to get the message - a particularly effective tactic aimed at younger voters in the European elections.

It was opportunistic and cynical to derail the discussion. Jo Coburn seemed to zone out and allow a different discussion to the one that the audience might have expected.

Green Politicians, eh? They say they want to do politics differently and then they show themselves to be just the same as the rest.

Quote on the thing:

Here's a second donation for being allowed the last word against an ill-informed panel on the Daily Politics

I think every time something awful like this panel (I didn't watch it but it sounds awful) happens in public we should all return and support again.

I too thinged again after watching the programme.

I noticed that Molly Scott Cato took control of the direction of the panel discussion to make a party political broadcast about the Green Party's stance on Trans rights. It was at this point that the panel was diverted to talk about the benefits of self i/d, I thought.

Absolutely. The debate should have been “should gender critical beliefs be a firing offence”, and an exploration of why so many people are horrified by Maya’s case that £60k in £25 donations has been raised in 2 days, NOT “are trans women women”, that wasn’t the topic up for discussion. Jo Coburn was completely ineffective as a chair.

Molly Scott Cato is widely lauded on anti-Brexit threads as a good MEP and voice of common sense, someone for remain voters to support in the upcoming elections. This appearance showed her to be either lacking in intelligence in not understanding the issue at hand, or an opportunist using the platform to parrot vaguely related policy and ignore the issue being raised. Neither of which is the kind of person I want representing me internationally.

YY. I'm afraid Scott Cato, who is standing in my area, won't be getting my vote. It will go to one of the Other Remain parties.

The debate should have been “should gender critical beliefs be a firing offence”

Exactly. I am sure Maya can discuss her views at length, but that isn’t the point of the case.

If Molly Scott Cato struck that kind of attitude in the referendum debates then I'm not surprised Remain lost. Ignorant and pompous is a toxic combination.

The panel were incapable of more than soundbites in the preceeding discussion on brexit. When challenged to actually give any detail neither of the two journalist guests could, they were simply repeating platitudes. So they are a bit of noise filler really.

At least the minister for employment said the case would be interesting and important without any twaw posturing.

The Green woman obviously wants us to believe in magical thinking on some subjects but not others... which doesn't do much for credibility at all.

I just thinged a second time too and I didn’t even watch the programme but reading this synopsis is enough

Tom harwood just motivated me to thing again.

The panel were incapable of more than soundbites in the preceeding discussion on brexit. When challenged to actually give any detail neither of the two journalist guests could, they were simply repeating platitudes

'On Truth' ( extract) from a collection of essays by George Orwell:

A party member is required, not only, to have the right opinions, but the right instincts. Many of the beliefs and attitudes demanded of him.......could not be stated without laying bare the contradictions inherent in Ingsoc ( prevailing orthodoxy). If he is a person naturally orthodox - a goodthinker -he will in all circumstances know, without taking thought, what is the true belief or the desirable emotion. But in any case elaborate mental training....makes him unwilling and unable to think too deeply on any subject whatever.

A party member is expected to have no private emotions, and no respite from enthusiasm. He is supposed to live in a continuous frenzy of hatred of foreign enemies and internal traitors. Speculations which might possibly induce a sceptical or rebellious attitude are killed in advance by his early acquired inner discipline. The first and simplest stage, which can be taught even to young children, is called Newspeak.

Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought.....failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc ( prevailing orthodoxy), and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity..........Blackwhite...when applied to an opponent, means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to party discipline it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary.

The panel were incapable of more than soundbites in the preceeding discussion on brexit. When challenged to actually give any detail neither of the two journalist guests could, they were simply repeating platitudes. So they are a bit of noise filler really.

Political reporting is atrocious everywhere but on the BBC in particular. I voted Remain but there is a perfectly good case for a left wing Brexit that has never been explained, for example. But it's the same with any issue. If you know a lot about a particular issue and then watch a BBC (or ITV, or Sky, or or or) political discussion on it, you will tear your hair out on how poor it is.

I think we notice on genderist issues because we do know all the details and so the biased framing sticks out a mile, but it is honestly the same with everything.

I blame the fashion for favourite talking heads who are, by and large, entirely ignorant of the topics they're paid their fees to opine about - for example, from what I can see, Ash Sarkar knows nothing about anything and is factually inaccurate every time she pops up. As are her click bait mirrors on the right.

But I also blame the root and branch failure of our media and political class. It is not fit for purpose.

Yes, we’re living in times when a politician says with a straight face ‘Britain has had enough of experts’

Yes Gove, we’d much rather that the ignorant and inept were in charge

But was it ever any better? Has there been a decline, or do we expect more now?