Maya Forstater

[DianeBrewster]

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

OH my god - these people are supposed to know what they are talking about.....be aware of the issues; understand them. They have not got a clue. Just chatting shit. The standard of intelligence and informed opinion is now sorely lacking in so many MP's.

Do not go on national TV and present yourself as an expert if you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

Was it him who said that castration (what castration?) is actually quite a feministic thing? I can't bear to watch it again.

Harwood has no idea what he is talking about.

A protected characteristic is useless if it can’t be defined, and that includes the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Actually I’m going to stop using ‘woke’, it’s far too fluffy. I’m going to call it what is: bigotry, sexism, misogyny.

YY.

To be fair to Harwood, in amid all the ill-informed and offensive ranting, he was at least the only one on the panel that did say Forstater certainly should not have lost her position over this.

(Boy did I have to grit my teeth to grind that out!)

As a pp said, Harwood seems pretty sure of himself. I am equally sure that if he was chatted up in a bar, and came to realise the woman he was talking to was a trans woman he would not be interested. I've yet to see a heterosexual male confirm that they would date a trans woman in the way that they would date a biological female.

I also don't believe that most men, if they wanted a biologically male person to carry out an intimate medical procedure, would accept a trans man for that purpose. If they wanted a male counsellor they would also want one born male and socialised along the same gender norms as them.

As for the Green woman !! Is there a factory somewhere that churns these people out. You can almost see the check list in her head. What do I say when it looks like a person, especially a woman, is not being "kind" about trans people ? ".... most persecuted people.... hate.... human rights ...... denial..... we must accept..... transphobic." Idiot

Oh and where are all these acts of persecution against trans people, these acts of literal violence ? I read and watch lots of news outlets, nothing so far. I see a lot of young men being stabbed to death, lots of people blown up for religious beliefs. Trans violence, where is it?

Yes, Harwood did say that Maya shouldn't have lost her job. He then tweeted the same sentiment, but in my view blew it by adding that she shouldn't have lost it for "a bad opinion. "

How are you defining bad Harwood? What "bad" opinion could/should she have lost it for? Free speech isn't a sliding scale. Who will be the arbiters of "bad" ? We all know it'll be people like the Green woman, who are the last people who should ever be in charge of a decision like that.

Maya sounds deflated by her experience of BBC Politics Live.

She tweets: The most nuanced conversation I had on #politicslive was with the taxi driver on the way there. Politicians and the BBC must catch up with the public who understand there are different vulnerable groups, and want reasoned public debate about policy, not repetition of slogans

Maya, I am angry on your behalf and that the Panel were so intent on promoting another agenda and missing your points.

You came across as impeccably reasonable and someone interested in the evidence and facts rather than made up stories.

Jo Coburn and Panel underlined why your case is so necessary and I'm sorry if you are being put through the wringer for standing up for me and mine and every female.

Maya tweet and the replies:

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1126114184939352064

Harry the Owl has a great tweet on there.

Jo Coburn and Panel underlined why your case is so necessary

Exactly. Stay strong Maya. You were excellent. It's not your fault that the panel chose to sing Kumbaya instead of actually discussing the issue. With you all the way

BBC complaint submitted:

When watching the section of Politics Live which covered Maya Forstater's employment tribunal case I was surprised that the high level of support that her crowd justice fund has received (raising £60,000 in two days) was not mentioned. The public support for her case is clearly one of the key points about it.

I was also surprised when the panel moved on from discussing the case itself (should a person lose their job for stating unpopular opinions in a measured and respectful way), to discussion of the actual opinions Ms Forstater had given.

All opinion polls on the subject have shown that the general public are not at all in favour of gender self ID. This is a controversial subject. Therefore if it is going to be discussed, a balance of views should be represented, instead of Ms Forstater being subject to a litany of criticism with no opportunity to reply, as happened here.

The BBC are incredibly divorced from the views of the general public on gender self ID. It is increasingly apparent just how out of touch as an organisation they are.

In summary, please could you answer the following questions:

1. why was no mention made of the crowd justice campaign?
2. do you feel (as I do), that BBC guidelines on impartiality were broken by allowing discussion of the substance of Ms Forstater's tweets without a balance of opinions being represented, and without any opportunity for Ms Forstater to reply?

Kind Regards
Bernard

As for the Green woman !! Is there a factory somewhere that churns these people out. You can almost see the check list in her head

It seemed a scripted response to anything which was interpreted as being a 'trans rights issue'.
No doubt some who are trans allies will say nothing more than she did.

You know what, every time I see something like this, where people are being ridiculously unwilling to debate or have a reasoned, evidenced discussion, I will be inspired to do something very practical and useful. Like sign a petition, like donate to people fighting for women and girls (I'm not saying to what or whom, for the record, it's a general statement, MN don't make me walk on eggshells more than I am already here).

I'm a middle aged mum with mountains of shitwork and responsibilities and I don't have time for woke nonsense. I want my daughter protected with proper safeguarding and I am incensed and outraged that this nonsense threatens her rights to safety, privacy and dignity.

So every time I listen to people who are so so ready to throw my daughters safety, privacy and dignity away and have so little knowledge of the real issues, I will do something practical.

I am seriously tempted to cancel my BBC license, demand a refund and donate the money to something pro-women and girls rights.

Thank you Maya.

I used to bloody love the BBC. I still think it’s a good thing on balance

I’d just like the grown ups back in charge now

Tom Harwood is really very sure he's right.

Thanks for that link R0wantrees. I clicked on it to find that I must have blocked him in the past for being an insufferable twerp. I almost never block, other than for abuse.

I used to bloody love the BBC. I still think it’s a good thing on balance I’d just like the grown ups back in charge now sad

The BBC realises that in order to survive going forward that it needs to appeal to younger more 'woke' generations; they will not be able to rely on their faithful older audience for much longer. Young people don't want to be paying a license fee for a service that they don't use, and which doesn't represent them.

Hence all of the highly politicised and 'woke' decisions they now make when it comes to what they cover. Note the new BBC2 drama series 'Pose', as an example; and the fact that they now, reputedly, employ a very high ratio of LGBTQI ( two spirit, one nose, and a unicorn horn) people. Channel 4 is not far behind.

Asking Maya are you transphobic? Are you?

Is discussion of the current law and proposals to change it transphobic???

Ffs.

Fools. Sexist fools.

I would love to see a (for example) Muslim woman ask a man why he think his right to ladyfeelz his way into female spaces on a daily whim is greater than hers, who is now excluded entirely.

Love Harry the Owl: "You were great, Maya. Where did they round up that bunch of woke nutters or do they keep them at room temperature in a BBC cupboard?"

It does come to something when on a panel of four people they can't find one who understands the importance of free speech.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, haven't had time to read all this thread.

But in another forum discussing this case it was pointed out that Maya Forstater didn't lose her job, but her contract came to an end and it was not renewed. Obviously if she had an expectation of renewal and / or had been told it would that would be different. But in terms of a legal case it isn't the same as losing your job.

Not saying that it isnt disgusting the way she has been treated, but knowing how unsatisfactory legal arguements are as they deal with technicalities not what is right or wrong, am wondering if this is going to make the court case more difficult.

And of course the information I am passing in on may be wrong.

But in another forum discussing this case it was pointed out that Maya Forstater didn't lose her job, but her contract came to an end and it was not renewed.

Asked and answered more than a dozen times here alone.

re BBC and other news media outlets

I think it is more worrying than it just being about trying to attract a younger audience, I think it is realising that the news is no longer about facts and information but about personalities and being on trend.

And unfortunately to do with the type of education and expectations those more recently leaving higher education think is how you "do" the news.

News programmes often seem to be not about the issue itself but about presententers showing off or competing with colleagues and rivals. They want to have the scoop. Not a scoop in terms of proper investigation, but geting someone (preferrably a politician) say something stupid live on air. Then they can spend the rest of the day endlessly re-airing their "scoop". Its Big Brother politics.

And of course, in terms of a younger generation coming into broadcasting from university, they will all have had an education that is steeped in the gender queer politics that was part of the back lash against Women's Liberation. So when it comes to trans rights versus women's rights they dont even think, they just like good pavlov dogs say what they have been brainwashed into thinking.

I think it is more worrying than it just being about trying to attract a younger audience, I think it is realising that the news is no longer about facts and information but about personalities and being on trend.

And spin, virtue signalling and social engineering based on a prevailing political agenda. See Lang's Regulatory Capture thread.

I haven't watched this. Just reading the comments here is enough to send my blood pressure up.

It's like an invasion of the pod people.