Maya Forstater

[DianeBrewster]

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

Simon Fanshawe (co-founder of Stonewall) has tweeted his support to Maya.

Simon has been consistently reasoned, kind and thoughtful throughout this whole mess.

I find it really scary that you need £60k for an employment tribunal My brother got legal aid when he was sacked for being off sick by his flakey employer to get the pay that was owed him. It worries me that people struggle to do this now - there are many such flakey employers around.

I find it really scary that you need £60k for an employment tribunal. What chance does a boring old adult human female who finds her job mysteriously gone after she has a baby stand of challenging it?

Agree entirely. Justice is only for the rich in this country it seems. There might be laws against discrimination but if you can't afford to pursue a case legally (even if it's watertight) then employers can do what they want, particularly to low paid employees, without repercussions.

Thanks for the reply, Pencils, but it doesn't really answer my question. I didn't express myself very clearly.

I guess I'm thinking that CDC, having recognized how big and important the case is potentially, may try to prevent the case from going forward by offering Maya a lavish sum and a fulsome apology to settle out of court. And I know that, in some court cases, refusing to accept what the judge sees as ample compensation puts the plaintiff in a bad light.

I'm wondering if there's any way Maya's employer can prevent the case from going ahead. Anyone know?

There are so many people on Twitter predictably tweeting that she deserved what she got, she denies trans people's right to exist (ffs), she is full of hate, all the usual stuff. I just wonder one thing: how stupid do you have to be not to understand the consequences of sacking people for what they think? Do they have no room in their tiny little brains for the concept that, if you start sacking people for thoughtcrime, then one day it might be evil Terfs, but the next it might be you?

I really wonder how it must feel to be that dim. Painful, I expect. (Or blissful, who knows?)

I just wonder one thing: how stupid do you have to be not to understand the consequences of sacking people for what they think? well... Rugby player Israel Folau is about to be sacked for what he thinks- or rather quoting the bible. So I think we are, as a society, definitely in that place.

she is full of hate, all the usual stuff

When did 'I disagree with you' become 'hate' for pete's sake? The high drama and hyperbole isn't normal and you don't find this in the general populace. It's like being trapped in a never ending year 6 wet lunch break with hormones and flouncing. Can we please speak to a damn grown up?

Labour is a mess. Oh, and kinder, gentler politics? How hollow was that?

Incredibly so. I hope the people who thought LM would be a good figurehead for it are having a word with themselves. Stunningly poor judgement and lack of due diligence.

Rugby player Israel Folau is about to be sacked for what he thinks- or rather quoting the bible.

This. I disagree fundamentally with what he said but unless we defend his right to say it we are screwed. Once we hand the people who already have too much power the broad right to police our speech it is game over for any chance of a more equal and decent society.

The problem is there has been a disconnect about this for ages. It's the tipping point beyond the perfectly sensible and reasonable change in society perspectives on tolerance and prejudice.

Which is what usually happens when sensible ideas get filtered through a lowest common denominator lazy culture - we all agree prejudice is wrong and tolerating differences is how human society will function in the most equitable and free manner. It's an admirable goal.

But it takes compassion, intelligence and patience to achieve. We were managing quite well for a very short time, but, as so often happens, it was a lot easier to slip into using totalitarian compulsion and actual scorn which is why we have ridiculous self defeating arguments about 'Not tolerating intolerance' and namecalling instead of 'let's talk about why people view the world that way, how we can address their concerns, and how we can live peaceably if we simply don't ever agree.'

theres already precedent beliefs are protected as long as it is a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information;
the belief is genuinely held;
the belief concerns a “weighty” and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour;
it is “worthy of respect in a democratic society”; and
it is held with “sufficient cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance”.

Care to elucidate why you obviously think gender critical feminist beliefs about the oppressive nature of gender, the importance of female rights and a disbelief that men are women don't fit those and say, belief in a god would?

I have the same belief and struggling to see why it doesn't tick all those boxes.

I disagree fundamentally with what he said but unless we defend his right to say it we are screwed.

Yup. It’s really troubling me how many people agree with the ruling- he’s found guilty of high level breach ( remember in rugby circles guys that bash their wives typically miss 1 game and that’s it ). There was a point in history where atheists couldn’t speak out without persecution, now it’s the other way round. I’m atheist myself. The added racism I’ve seen about Pacific Islanders, including published in The Times I’m sorry to say, just makes it worse. Apparently we are uneducated and live in the dark ages back when we were colonised and western culture has evolved and we haven’t . You know, because we’re dumb and obviously there are no bigoted homophobic white westerners.

A lurker here just wanting to say THANK YOU Maya you have my support and huge admiration - good luck!

I don't think greenlloon said they disagreed with the idea that gender critical feminism qualified, Ereshkigal. In fact they mentioned that there was precedent (which there has been).

If anyone wants a bit of cheering up, the comments under the petition from thousands of concerned citizens are heartwarming.

If anyone wants a bit of cheering up, the comments under the petition from thousands of concerned citizens are heartwarming.

They are. There's a lot of anger.
It's worth remembering that Maya spoke up because the government launched a public consultation on self-ID. She did so politely and from a woman's perspective, and look what happened. Women are being silenced, and our politicians are standing around gormlessly repeating the TWAW mantra.
Solidarity, Maya. I hope that seeing all the support eases your mind a bit!

Nearly reached the target! Solidarity Maya and Puuuulllll!!!!

It’s tantalising close.

The comments really are wonderful. Rather a large number dedicated to a particular individual really did make me chuckle 😂😂😂

Glad to have been able to support today.

Prawn, I was basing that assumption on greenloon's earlier comment yesterday about why they didn't think Maya would win the case:

thirdly It must be a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available

And that is the point I'd like greenloon to explain. Why would it be considered "an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available"?

Loved this comment.

"Another donation. Because I googled 'the cotton ceiling'. We must have the freedom to question this repressive ideology."

I must admit, it’s refreshing to see the support from men too. They’re finally starting to see the problem.

Puuulllll

20 mins to raise £210 which would mean 60k raised in 2 days. Anyone had a winner on Foxybingo tonight and feeling flush 😂

It's so close Awks! I keep checking to see if it's the target yet.

110 to go! 😬