My complaint to Glasgow Life re sports centres

[ImNotNigel]

( NC for obvious reasons )

Glasgow Life are the Council organisation that run sports centres in Glasgow. They have been in the papers about their policy of allowing men into women only facilities

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

I am a member so I went tonight to complaint to the manager at the local centre. He was a young man of around 30.

It took about 5 mins of patient questioning from me for him to admit it was indeed council policy. He kept maintaining that there were no mixed sex or unisex facilities, but eventually he acknowledged it.

So I asked him if I could go right then and use the male changing room, ( I’m an XX person for the avoidance of doubt ).

He told me no, because I wasn’t “going through the process of gender change”. Now the council policy specifically says this is not required, but decided not to argue this further.

I told him that I indentified as agender, which counted as trans. He looked very perplexed by this, and questioned me for another 5 mins, arguing that I wasn’t. Although he agreed that if I was, I could use the Male changing room.

He waxed lyrical about the individual cubicles for showers and changing ( within the Male changing room ). I checked that their was no requirement on me ( since I was identifying as male tonight ) to use these and I could walk around naked in the men’s changing room if I wanted to, and would this be fine.

He said “ We were told in our training that that would never happen, because you would be ashamed of your body”. So I asked if he was suggesting that I should be ashamed of my body.

He knew he was in a hole but he kept on digging.

Then he went for the sympathy vote, pointlessly appealing to my female socialisation . He tilted his head and declared

“ You know it’s hard for people like you and me to understand what it feels like to be trans and how hard it must be. So the council has to allowed them access, it’s the law”.

[ feeble attempt at forced teaming there too ]

I reminded him that I was trans myself and asked which law. He replied “ Well you know more that me as you have read up on it “ .

I asked about their Equality Impact Assessment and the about the effects on other centre users, who didn’t want to share showers and changing areas with a person of the opposite sex. He said “ Well they wouldn’t be the opposite sex would they ? “.

I guessed that was in his training too.

By the end he was losing his temper, so ( perhaps wisely ) said “ I’m not talking to you anymore, you need to speak to someone in legal”.

He went to reception to look up a number and said to his two female colleagues ( who were trying not to snigger ) “ For fucks sake, now she’s telling me she’s trans “.

I said “ I can’t believe you are questioning my gender identity. Please stop saying that, it’s very offensive “.

He threw a paper at me with a number and stormed off.

It was entertaining but rather unsatisfactory. I think I can guess who did their training.

So it’s the Council Legal Services tomorrow, that should be better.

And of course I will complain about being told that I’m not trans. Repeatedly.

I guess the training didn’t cover that bit.

He said “ We were told in our training that that would never happen, because you would be ashamed of your body”.

WTAF? There is no way this is acceptable from any perspective.

Also, it looks like he misgendered you.

Why would they say you would be ashamed of your body

Why would they foresee that women would be ashame£ of their bodies

Is this is what they teach their staff

That women are ashamed of their bodies

Funny that he wasn’t happy when a woman says she’s a man. That rattled his cage. I’m the wrong kind of trans person in oh so many ways.

Exactly this. We all know who these so called policies are meant for, who will benefit. Who gets the red carpet strewn with rose petals all the way to their preferred changing rooms, no questions asked.

And who gets told firmly no, because it doesn’t apply to you.

But not men so that’s fine.

I’m confused - are you trans?
Judging by the Stonewall definition, most of us are, yes.

Front line staff will have had some cobbled together training delivered by some friend of Bridget McConnell who, after years at the council and a golden handshake, has set up her own equalities diversity training consultancy and will be doing the rounds across quangos.

The training will be shit and a rushed half day session where staff are told/brainwashed how to think via a video and woefully thin q and as along width an already out of date training box. That will tick the box and the consultancy will be paid £10k for 6 sessions.

Don't blame the poor front of house staff member on minimum wage for not being able to aptly express a policy and information that he was probably only recently presented with. Blame the powers that be for not being transparent - through signage and other communication -about their obvious policy.

I don't feel sorry for him.

I doubt he believes that any hairy arsed trucker who claims womanly gender feels is really a woman. I don't think anybody truly does.

windygallows I recognise those courses

Yeah that is McConnell all over

Grifting again

Very well done OP and also Vicky

I can't work out the 'ashamed of your body' comment. Is it that all trans people are ashamed, trans men are ashamed (as that's what you were sort of presenting as) or women are ashamed of our bodies, & can therefore be bullied into submission?

It'd be interesting to send a friendly male along in the guise of a tw and see how the treatment compares.

I can't work out the 'ashamed of your body' comment. Is it that all trans people are ashamed, trans men are ashamed (as that's what you were sort of presenting as) or women are ashamed of our bodies, & can therefore be bullied into submission?

Context - he finally agreed that the policy was that trans people could use the changing room of the other sex. I aksed how that might affect other people, especially children.

He replied that if the boys ( in my case ) were embarrassed to be seen by a biological Woman, they could use the cubicles. I pointed out that a little boy could come out the changing cubicle Fully dressed himself, and encounter me, a completely naked woman in the communal changing area. And this might perturb him.

The mamaged has no answer. It has simply not occurred to him that people might not wish to see naked people of the opposite sex in their changing room. Because of course, at his training this was the answer given . “ Anyone who is not happy can use the cubicles “.

Which he why he told me this would never happen because all trans people are ashamed of their bodies. I assume because is his head they all have gender dysphoria. ( Which isn’t remotely the Councils policy BTW, it includes cross dressers etc)

I guess it’s part of the “ feel sorry for these poor troubled souls, they are all so unhappy, it’s the least you women can do to give up your privacy and safety for these men “ line.

I suspect it’s also because he know that XX Women are VERY unlikely to parade naked around the men’s changing room , just because we can. And although some XY men are VERY likely to do this in the women changing rooms, he doesn’t care about that.

So it’s that the first will never happen. And the second will, but it doesn’t matter.

BTW I wasn’t ‘sort of presenting’ as anything . I told him the truth - that I am a biological female and identity as agender, which comes under the trans Umbrella .

I doubt he believes that any hairy arsed trucker who claims womanly gender feels is really a woman. I don't think anybody truly does.

But would he have said 'you're not trans' to the hairy arsed trucker, or just let him into the women's changing rooms? Would he have told the hairy arsed trucker that he should be ashamed of his body?

I do think the front line staff need to deal with this. They are the ones who can pass the crap back up the line to the managers and policy makers. They can also raise informed objections at the training when told all the things that will never happen.

Agree.

Don't blame the poor front of house staff member on minimum wage for not being able to aptly express a policy and information that he was probably only recently presented with. Blame the powers that be for not being transparent - through signage and other communication -about their obvious policy

He wasn’t front of house on minimum wage, he’s a centre manager, they are on £35k+.

And I didn’t ask him to explain it, I asked him to note my complaint and he denied that such a policy existed. For about 5 mins of my persistent but polite questioning.

I’d have been out of there in 2 mins if he has done me the courtesy of being honest and doing his job . Instead he lied to me repeatedly.

There is no such policy.
This never happens.
War is peace, freedom is slavery.

Earning 35k a year is more than enough to be able to explain the policy correctly and deal diplomatically with a member of the public questioning it.

Some men like the idea of women being "punished" with men in our spaces. It appeals to them.

Some men like the idea of women being "punished" with men in our spaces. It appeals to them.

YY.

I'm much in awe of NotNige for being so articulate. Thank you so much!

Is this is what they teach their staff

That women are ashamed of their bodies

Quite. At a gym no less. Women won't want to do it. Not looking like that, luv. Snort

This is all kinds of fucked up notNige. Men getting boners from wearing the wife's frilly drawers can parade up and down the women's all the live long day. Indeed they expect them to. Then even specify it.

But anything remotely resembling a reciprocal arrangement? Not in a million.

And the whole fricking world knows why.

Plus cross dressing isn't trans. You don't even have to be agender. Just wear a tie.

Well done. And massive solidarity.

Interesting that it's Lee Cormack who's the lawyer. I hear she is quite smart.

Here's hoping.

It's such bullshit. Well said, Datun and well done OP

Ashamed of their body

Trans teaching point number one.

I’m really sorry to ask ...but what is an XX and XY ?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

recall
XX=human female
XY=human male
The X and Y are chromosomes.

👍