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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Any thoughts on the porn ban?

215 replies

Lula1998 · 23/04/2019 00:59

Hate the Tories but I think this is the one thing they've done that I agree with. I know kids can get round it with VPNs etc, but some of the younger ones won't. Porn is a cancer imo.

OP posts:
pikapikachu · 24/04/2019 12:20

"Not that I'm against porn" probably means that she thinks that adults can watch porn if they want. She was making the important point that you can't totally stop porn entering your home. I've tried this and failed too.

With little kids, sitting with them when they go online is the only way to keep them safe. If very young kids see porn I suspect that it's the result of the owner of the device (an adult like the parent) leaving windows with porn open or the owner of the device having porn downloaded on the hardware. Letting very young children unsupervised on devices should be seen like letting little kids hand around a swimming swimming pool- something that shouldn't be done without direct supervision. Yet I see kids daily watching tablets and phones in buggies while the carer goes about their business.

My kids are secondary school aged so them dabbling in VPNs and the Dark Web is a serious possibility that I'd like to avoid. I'd rather that they weren't interested but I monitor his messages and he's sent stuff regularly. It's really hard keeping your teen safe online. My personal experience is that the parents who say/think that they have it cracked, have kids with secret social media accounts. One of my son's friends has a clean account that his mum follows (she's an e-safety teacher in a school) and another where he posts rude memes and scantily clad glamour model images.

Whatisthisfuckery · 24/04/2019 12:36

God, this is one of the most infuriatingly bonkers threads I’ve read in some time.

My DS is 11, he already knows far more about tech than I do. I’m running full speed and I’m still two steps behind him. I wonder which of us tech dinosaurs has gone looking for something online, not found it in the usual places so gone searching. Even I could probably access some illegal porn if I wanted, which I don’t. It would take me a few clicks.

I can understand the initial gatekeeping argument. A young child might click on something and land up on Pornhub. They wouldn’t be able to get in without age verification so go back to what they were doing. For anyone arriving with even half the intent of viewing the content it’s not going to make a blind bit of difference. If you’re looking for something on the web the chances are that you’ll find it without much trouble.

A PP likened this new law to pulling a curtain over it and that’s exactly what it is. Anyone who wants to see what’s behind the curtain can easily pull it back, and what they’ll find is a cornucopia of violence and depravity I daren’t even contemplate. Even with the best will in the world it’s impossible to stem the tide. We’ve tried it with drugs, we’ve tried it with illegal music and film downloads, and it barely makes a dent. Likewise you’ll never stop young people from looking behind the curtain. We need to be pragmatic, teenagers want to explore, they want to be edgy and dangerous and as parents we need to understand this and educate our kids from a disconcertingly young age that yes, porn is out there, but no, sex is not like that, and that what they view online will affect their real lives. Personally I teach my DS to use himself as a benchmark. If he wouldn’t like something to be done to him, or if he thinks it would hurt, then other people will probably feel the same.

One of the biggest problems of the internet in general is that it isolates us. I might be talking to 100 people on a forum but they only exist on a screen. When a teenage boy is alone wanking himself sick in his bedroom all that exists to him is his own feelings. There’s no feedback, no consequences. Unless we drum it in to our kids from an early age that other peoples’ feelings are just as real as their own, they’ll grow up without the understanding that their behaviour and actions not only affect them, they impact on others as well.

It’s utterly horrifying the amount of truly vile stuff that can be easily accessed, and I’m not just talking the mainstream sites, but getting enraged and shouting on the internet won’t make it go away. It’s clear that the governments of the world have no real appetite to clamp down, and children are being sexualised younger and younger and our government have nothing to say about that, so it’s up to us as parents. It shouldn’t be this way but it is, and if a generation of parents did their best to educate their kids about the cancer that is pornography then maybe we’d start to see the groundswell of pressure we need to force the societal change we need, without which the appetite for this evil filth will never go away.

SimonJT · 24/04/2019 13:03

I don’t know how realistically it can be done, and I say this as someone who very easily got around China’s many firewalls on an iphone 3gs.

Prohibition has never worked, education however has, but the problem is that people just don’t talk about sex openly enough. The S word was never mentioned in my house, we weren’t allowed to take part in any form of sex ed, until we can change those sort of attitudes nothing will change. How can you possibly know whats normal if you’re not able to talk about sex?

Did anyone see mum make porn? It was in channel 4 fairly recently.

RomanyQueen1 · 24/04/2019 16:12

Porn has been around for centuries in one form or another.
It's hilarious that this generation thinks they can rid the world of the evil Grin

SaskiaRembrandt · 24/04/2019 19:31

Porn has been around for centuries in one form or another.
It's hilarious that this generation thinks they can rid the world of the evil

The same is true of a lot of things - eg: witch burning, corporal punishment, imprisoning women for extramarital sex - but those things are all socially unacceptable now. It's not an argument to say that there is a long tradition of a certain kind of abhorrent behaviour therefore it is pointless to try to change things.

SaskiaRembrandt · 24/04/2019 19:35

There's another thread with a similar brick wall mentality at the moment. Does my fucking head in!

A while ago, some activist on Twitter said they wanted to sow dissent on these boards - I may be barking up a very wrong tree, but thinking about it I wonder if some of the more obtuse posters are that person's flying monkeys.

RomanyQueen1 · 24/04/2019 19:37

Porn is quite acceptable to a large proportion of the population.
Allowing your children to see it, and you are if you don't prevent it, is bad parenting tbh.

SaskiaRembrandt · 24/04/2019 19:39

HorsewithnoFrills firstly, I said you wouldn't find many posters here who were in favour of porn, not that you wouldn't find any. Please read the actual words I post, not the ones that fit the narrative in your head.

Furthermore, until very recently, these boards were very much a radfem enclave. I've never seen a regular poster who was pro-porn, and I've rarely seen an occasional poster who was. (And I've been posting here for donkey's years). If you have an issue with libfems I suggest you go and find some and take it up with them.

Antibles · 24/04/2019 19:43

Porn is quite acceptable to a large proportion of the population.

Yes, the the male proportion. Very acceptable indeed.

SaskiaRembrandt · 24/04/2019 19:46

Porn is quite acceptable to a large proportion of the population.
Allowing your children to see it, and you are if you don't prevent it, is bad parenting tbh

I agree. But the problem is that many people don't think they are bad parents if they let their children access porn. As we can see from this thread, they think it someone else's responsibility to stop that happening. That is why responsible parents need to speak to their children about this, and why as a society we need to have some way of calling out that kind of lax parenting. It is not acceptable for parents to hide behind technical illiteracy, any more than it okay for them to say they aren't electricians therefore they can't stop their children poking forks into toasters.

I'd go further though, and repeat what I've already said: we have a generation who have grown up with a massively distorted idea of what constitutes a healthy sexual relationship, and research suggests that is very largely due to those young adults being exposed to porn at a formative age. That is a major problem that we as a society need to prevent being replicated with future generations.

SaskiaRembrandt · 24/04/2019 19:48

Yes, the the male proportion. Very acceptable indeed

Women watch porn too. I don't know how the numbers match up to the number of men, but it is a thing. In order to deal with this we have to be realistic, we can't just pretend it's something only men do.

And for parents, it's crucial that they don't think that their daughters are immune, they need guiding too.

Voice0fReason · 24/04/2019 22:52

As I have already asked before, I presume, as the internet cannot be regulated, that no attempt should be made to remove child porn?
Please don't refer to it as 'child porn', it is images of child abuse.
It is VERY different to porn.
Child abuse is illegal all over the world.
No 'reputable' (for want of a better term) porn site will allow that kind of content on their site. Possession of it is illegal so it has to be hidden away on the dark web.

Pornography, regardless of how you or pretty much everyone on this board feels about it, is not illegal. There is no chance of it being made illegal in this country and even if there was, it would be so widely available in the rest of the world that it will always be easily accessible.

I think too many people are arguing that because this ban can be circumvented then it’s worse than having no ban.
While there is no ban, people use the 'reputable' sites where there is some degree of regulation and standards.
The ban will only affect these 'reputable' sites.
With those sites harder to access, people will look for the completely unregulated sites which will be VERY easily available and impossible to remove as they are hosted overseas.

Porn is quite acceptable to a large proportion of the population.
Allowing your children to see it, and you are if you don't prevent it, is bad parenting tbh
There are things you can do as a parent to reduce the chances of your child seeing it and you can definitely do things to educate your children about it, but no parent can guarantee their child won't see it. The porn ban will only stop a young child from accidentally coming across it - something you can easily do as a parent anyway. Any teen who wants to find porn will be able to access it just as easily after the ban as they could before. The only difference is the sites they will be accessing after the ban will be completely unregulated.

Antibles · 25/04/2019 01:09

It’s clear that the governments of the world have no real appetite to clamp down.

Agree. No indeed. They are male-dominated. Men absolutely do not want their new miracle supply of wank fodder limited and lo! it shall be unhindered. Let the individual parents fight the sea of depravity on their own and they shall be blamed when they slip up.

Childrenofthestones · 25/04/2019 06:44

As there is no such thing as a free lunch, how do these companies make money at it.
From what I have seen there are few if any adverts, is it data mining?

Childrenofthestones · 25/04/2019 06:48

Part 2
Bugger this lack of an edit button!

It crossed my mind a few years back when I was involved with a national strike where the leader suddenly folded and accepted an offer when the vast majority of the workforce were up for staying out the door.
How easy would it be for a government to have a person's internet history and the power to use it to destroy their lives if they don't do what they are told.

FlyingOink · 25/04/2019 07:01

Childrenofthestones I'm pretty sure they could find out enough about a person to blackmail them, yes.
For your other question:
reason.com/2018/08/08/mindgeek-or-the-biggest-digital-streamin/

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/pornography-industry-economics-tarrant/476580/

And especially
fightthenewdrug.org/how-does-the-porn-industry-actually-make-money-today/

HorsewithnoFrills · 25/04/2019 08:12

The same is true of a lot of things - eg: witch burning, corporal punishment, imprisoning women for extramarital sex - but those things are all socially unacceptable now. It's not an argument to say that there is a long tradition of a certain kind of abhorrent behaviour therefore it is pointless to try to change things.

Excellent point. I like you.

HorsewithnoFrills · 25/04/2019 08:13

As there is no such thing as a free lunch, how do these companies make money at it.From what I have seen there are few if any adverts, is it data mining?

Yes, I'd love to know the answer to that. Anyone?

Bowlofbabelfish · 25/04/2019 08:25

I’m no fan of porn.

However, requiring age verification (which means identification verification) to access the web is a worrying precedent. How long before you need to verify for any website? Who controls that data? Why can’t we be anonymous online? Who verifies? Who benefits financially? Who gets that data and what do they do with it?

Wasnt there a move to require ID verification for all websites recently? That’s scary stuff.

So no, from me. Better to educate and reduce demand in other ways. We need a societal climate where most men aren’t expecting to wank off to women being abused, not hardcore abuse available as long as you sacrifice privacy.

FlyingOink · 25/04/2019 09:05

Yes, I'd love to know the answer to that.
I posted some links. Mostly advertising of other porn sources, basically.
At some point someone is actually paying for new content, which makes me wonder what their niche is, considering what is available for free.

MonkeyToesOfDoom · 25/04/2019 11:02

PornHub makes.money from advertising.
You can sign up to make money from PornHub yourself. You upload a video, an advert plays before it, more views of your video, more ad revenue, more money you get... Like YouTube.

HorsewithnoPhD · 25/04/2019 11:36

PornHub makes.money from advertising.

Blimey!

We could boycott the services and products advertised therein?

Coca-cola? I bet bloody Nestle too.

Voice0fReason · 25/04/2019 21:46

We could boycott the services and products advertised therein?
It's predominantly adult products and services that are being advertised.
Like it or not, sites like pornhub have an enormous international audience - far bigger than any UK feminist boycott could ever affect.
Even if it did work, it still wouldn't do anything to reduce the amount of porn on the internet, people would just use less well run sites!

You will never reduce porn use by trying to control the internet. It can only be done by teaching people the realities of porn so reducing demand for it. There's no quick fix and there is very little that one country can do on their own.

Whisky2014 · 25/04/2019 21:50

O thought it was only for paid porn sites?
So sites like porn hub which are free won't require it?

Meh don't think it will make much difference. If parents are concerned about kids seeing things they shouldnt, then they should put the correct parental controls on their devices.

Whisky2014 · 25/04/2019 21:53

Yes, the the male proportion. Very acceptable indeed.
Antibles, I'm a woman and i love porn. So do many of my female friends. Don't be so ignorant