Any thoughts on the porn ban?

[Lula1998]

Hate the Tories but I think this is the one thing they've done that I agree with. I know kids can get round it with VPNs etc, but some of the younger ones won't. Porn is a cancer imo.

Censorship of child pornography has been largely successful (aside from the dark web) because it has been an effort supported by almost every country on the planet against something viewed as socially abhorrent by almost everyone in society. It is a success hard won at huge cost to the individuals working to maintain it and great expense to the governments funding it, but we should rightly hold it up as an example of what can be achieved.

I fail to see how we can hope for a moment to achieve the same with more general pornography without both multinational (every nation) support and funding which would have to be vastly in excess of everything directed at child porn.

Pirate software and media is a good example of something very readily available online to all despite a reasonably concerted attempt by almost the whole world to ban it.

First attitudes to pornography have to change across the world, then there is a chance for regulation to be somewhat successful at obtaining the resources required to enforce. I fear the legislation we see at present will at best be counter productive.

I think too many people are arguing that because this ban can be circumvented then it’s worse than having no ban. But think if it were the other way round - if we currently had a rule that you had to prove you were 18 to access porn online - would you argue for the removal of that? Would you argue to remove the age restriction? It may be imperfect, but it’s a strong signal that this is not a neutral activity and it should be age restricted. I wouldn’t argue to remove it if we had it and would look with suspicion on anyone who did.

Can governments really clamp down on organized crime?

It should be their aim. And if at first they don't succeed..

Could one of the experts please answer me this:

Does Pornhub or any other site mentioned so far on here pay tax to the uk govt.?

Was looking where Pornhub is based and found an article about pornhub helping users in India get around the Indian ban

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/porn-ban-pornhub-mirror-sex-websites-block-india-a8609071.html%3famp

And Pornhub launching a VPN

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/5/24/17382144/pornhub-launches-vpn-vpnhub

Does Pornhub or any other site mentioned so far on here pay tax to the uk govt.?

Not as far as I know.
MindGeek, which owns the biggest porn sites, is based in Canada and pays taxes there.

I think that following France's lead and banning smartphone use for under 15s during school hours would help a little. Depending on school policy kids have to leave smartphones at home or have them switched off during school hours. Smartphone use during lessons was already banned and I think UK schools should stop this too. My kids at secondary are expected to take photos of the board, log into apps on their phone or tablet... It removes the problems arising from the filming and photographing of fellow pupils.

Its not going to stop determined teenagers or adults who are net-savvy, but it will make it much less likely to be accessed by young children or people that arent determined, which is the point. Noone is banning it. Theyre just putting laws in place to attempt to protect young children from early exposure to misogynistic and violent material, which is at public health crisis point, what with 8 year olds having porn addictions and the huge rise in child on child sexual assaults.

You know, even with rape and murder being illegal, determined people still do it. Doesnt mean the ban is useless

if we currently had a rule that you had to prove you were 18 to access porn online - would you argue for the removal of that?

If it functioned in the way this law does, then yes, I would argue that it should be removed because it would not be fit for purpose. It would be easily circumvented either by readily available technology, or by the use of sites and services which fell outside this legislation. I would also argue that a law which exacerbated a situation it was intended to ameliorate (as this one does) has no place on the statute books and should be revoked.

t may be imperfect, but it’s a strong signal that this is not a neutral activity and it should be age restricted. I wouldn’t argue to remove it if we had it and would look with suspicion on anyone who did.

It's not enough to send a signal, it has to be the right signal, not one that causes more harm than good.

And I look with suspicion on anyone who supports legislation which drives children towards darker and nastier corners of the internet. Why would someone do that?

..It's not enough to send a signal..

I think that the signal, the message, however we decide to communicate it should be what the OP said:

Porn is a cancer. That'll do.

saskia do you agree that porn is a cancer? (Not just for kids but everyone)

HorsewithnoFrills

Yes, I do agree, but my feelings about porn are completely irrelevant to the subject under discussion, namely, that the government have introduced legislation which is intended to protect children from accessing it, but which will, in fact, simply divert them to nastier and more digging forms of it.

Now a couple of questions for you:

a) why are you so keen to support something that will make it easier for children to access extreme porn, torture sites, drug dealers, as well as making it more likely they will be exposed to grooming and bullying?

b) why are you so averse to parents taking responsibility for their the protection of their children about this issue, when it is completely uncontroversial that they do so in other areas - you know stuff like road safety, safety around water and electricity?

damaging, not digging

Seeing as porn is cancer
Government porn ban is like treating lung cancer with a leg cast and a crutch.
Sure it's visibly doing something, but ultimately it's useless and does nothing to treat the cause or ease the symptoms.

Saskia. Your questions

Why are you so keen..

Why are you so averse...

I don't believe that I have shown keenness or aversion to anything like what you have described. In fact you seem to be attributing opinions and ideas to me.

I am glad that you agree that porn is a cancer and that we both apparently have the same aims - to kill it.

Seeing as porn is cancer..

Just for clarification monkey, is that you agreeing with the statement?

I am glad that you agree that porn is a cancer and that we both apparently have the same aims - to kill it.

It will only stop being created when people stop demanding it. This includes adults. do you have any idea on how to get people to stop wanting porn?

HorsewithnoFrills you are arguing against people who are explaining why this legislation is not only pointless but dangerous - what other conclusion should I draw? If you have a different opinion please do share it!

Also, you keep asking for our opinions of porn - this is a feminist forum, you are unlikely to find many posters who think it's fine and dandy. What you are doing is akin to asking people on a vegan forum if they are against factory farming, or asking atheists if they have been 'saved'. The answer to your question goes without saying, so it's completely redundant.

..do you have any idea on how to get people to stop wanting porn?

Great question. I think I'd prefer persuasion and you'd need patience too because it would understandably take time (generations?) to get people to evolve. I think someone on this thread has already made comparisons with drink driving? I think dd and more recently smoking in cars with children on board do often start out with some resistance but eventually most of us get on board with things like not smoking in pubs etc. So I think it should be possible to educate men to realise over time that porn is a shitty shameful thing that harms other humans but especially women and children. So education and a few laws like I said about hotels could be a starting point, but I don't really think we have started yet, properly.

It will only stop being created when people stop demanding it. This includes adults. do you have any idea on how to get people to stop wanting porn?

Yes - please do let us know your thoughts about this.

Ah, you have answered that. Two points, firstly you do realise it is only men who watch porn? Secondly, do you disagree that the best way to eradicate the desire for it is for parents to educate their children about what constitutes healthy relationships and why porn is not consistent with that?

not only men

This thread is completely ridiculous and still getting right on my saggy tits.

"I'm so left wing unlike you evil right wing neoliberals and that means I don't need to read what you're saying: I can just insult you."

FFS. Hello? This is the government being neoliberal - giving porn companies lucrative contracts to operate ineffective policies that will, if anything, direct your children towards more harmful viewing.

LangCleg I'm starting to wonder if some posters are actually government aides who are canvassing for opinions on legislation they've already delayed once.

There's another thread with a similar brick wall mentality at the moment. Does my fucking head in!

..this is a feminist forum, you are unlikely to find many posters who think it's fine and dandy...

Wrong. One example - yesterday scorpio32 said this:

"I went through an exercise where I deliberately tried to block all porn from getting into my house. Not that I'm against porn, but I wanted to see if it was possible." (My emphasis)

Also yes, this forum is feminist and some here might be liberal feminists who do not want to destroy the sex industry like I do.