What would you say to a man in the ladies’ toilets?

[Victoriapestis01]

Hi, I’ve asked this question on another thread so sorry for banging on about it. It has preyed on my mind.

I’d like to know what polite yet assertive response it is possible to give to a man using a women’s toilet in say, a shop, theatre or other public place. For instance: ‘ This is the womens toilet, could you please go elsewhere so I can use a single sex facility’?

I have myself been in the position of encountering a man, alone, in an open plan changing room. I frightened, embarrassed, undignified, intruded upon, and angry, and flung on my clothes in the locked toilet cubicle, then rushed off, leaving him alone in the changing room that said ‘women’ on the door.

Next time this happens I’d like to say something, but what? What would you say?

Work is of course a completely different issue. Any HR people on here, what can a woman say in this position without endangering her livelihood? (We’ve had guidance at work to the effect that men can use the women’s toilets if they feel female.)

Please note that I have deliberately not used the word transwoman in this post. If I meet a man in the ladies I will have no idea of how he classifies himself, or any interest in this question. I’ll just know he is a man. So that is what my question focuses on, men, as a biological class, whether bearded and in biker gear or coiffured and in make up, whether trans or non-binary identifying or anything else. Men, in the women’s toilet.

“Excuse me, you’re in the wrong toilet. The Gents is next door.” Delivered with firm Paddington stare.

I'd ask them to chuck me some loo roll under the door. I always get the dud cubicle.

What Babdoc said >practices Paddington hard stare

I said. ‘If you’re going to piss on the seat, you could at least wipe it’. Because he had. And he hadn’t.

A genuine man, yeah. He'd be mortified I'm sure- We'd probably have a little Should Have Gone To Specsavers chuckle.

Someone delusional and entitled might get histrionic or aggressive. You know the way some people March through life wanting something to complain about. Honestly, I'd probably not engage. I'd be afraid - I'm small and weak, it's easy tower over me and intimidate me. Not proud of it but that's the reality

I’m afraid I would never confront a man using the female toilets. Far too risky, especially if you’re alone in the toilets. I would however speak to staff/security and ask them to remove the man from the wrong bathroom.

It depends on the demeanour of the man and the type of environment.

In a managed facility where there are staff nearby, the most effective thing is to walk out, complain to them and allow them to deal with it.

In places where there is no-one to turn to (toilets in bus stations late at night) - don't go there.

If you've got back up (a friend, say) then it's OK to say something non-confrontational like: "This is the Ladies, isn't it? Are we in the wrong place?" And see what the reaction is.

There's a time and place for being assertive about your rights to single-sex spaces but experience tells me that challenging a strange man in a confined space needs skilful and careful handling.

Run. Leave.

When I accidentily walk in the mens (I have terrible eyesight) I usually get 'ladies next door love!' shouted at me, so I guess I would use the oppersit of this.

The only time I have walked into the loos to find men in there it was a dodgy nightclub and they were doing a drug deal. They did apologise and move so i could get to the cubicals but I decided to wait outside with my bf till they were finished! My above retort woild prob not have been much use.

First and foremost, prioritise your safety.
Only challenge if you feel you are not likely to be in physical danger.

THIS woman had 5 teeth knocked out by a violent man because she challenged him in the women's toilets

I thought I would do what Badoc says, but in reality I did what you did and legged it. It was also in a changing room. I couldn't start an argument with a man when I was with my dc in a swimming costume.

If it was a man (and in this case I mean someone who pretty clearly identified as male, not some trans woman or masculine-looking woman who was obviously just desparately trying to fit in and go about their daily business), I either be quiet or make a joke to them about it.

I wouldn't say anything. If he's hanging out in the ladies he's 100% wrongun. I'd go straight to the nearest member of staff and bang on about the equality act til they did something.

I also don't understand why men in women's toilets are more dangerous than when you see them in most situations? The only time I can imagine being scared is if it was late at night or very deserted.

I also don't understand why men in women's toilets are more dangerous than when you see them in most situations?

Yeah, sure you don’t

I'd probably say 'oh' and walk straight back out. Non confrontational but it says I see you

I actually really really don't 😅. I mean, I use a stall to pee? And I don't mind men seeing me in a bikini on the beach. I shouldn't comment on these threads, tbh, I've seen them around and always been like

I was in a Council swimming pool female changing room during swimming lessons and there was a man in there.

I went outside to reception and told the only member of staff around, a male receptionist. He asked if I’d asked the man to go? No, funnily enough I hadn’t. He said there was nothing he could do about it as being a man he couldn’t go into the women’s changing rooms to chuck him out...

I was changing in a single sex female changing room. Changing myself and my daughter's for a swimming party. A man came in with this daughter. I confronted him and asked him what he was doing. He insisted he was in the right, he was changing his daughter!!

Everyone kind of scattered. I told him to find the family area. He stayed. I should have reported him but they were there for the same party. Too bloody nice.

My first mumsnet row this. Some woke idiot telling me that I was a prude and I should have got over being semi naked in front of a strange man. Honestly makes me fume everytime I think of that.

I know the answer!

Mumsnetter standing at sink next to man. She riffles through her sparkly handbag.
“Oh no, I seem to have come out without my wangdoofle. You haven’t got a spare have you? “

Sales of wangdoofle’s will go through the roof!

almondy what you don't get having drunk the kool-aid is that allowing mixed sex toilets takes away a level of protection. Man who thinks he's a woman wants a wee? Fine. Man wants to practice voyeurism or carry out a sexual assault? Not fine. How do we know which one is which? That is the problem. For the record, I don't want men in women's spaces full stop. Its just some people struggle to understand what the issue is.

"I’d like to know what polite yet assertive response"

Forget the "polite" .. any male in any women's space is breaking the law.

See Equality Act, Schedule 3 [Services and public functions: exceptions]; section 27 [Single sex services]; subsection 6:

(6) The condition is that—

(a) the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and

(b) the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex.

This means that any female can object to any male being in their designated communal sex-segregated space and vice versa; ie: toilets. changing rooms, showers, etc .. any space.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

I also don't understand why men in women's toilets are more dangerous than when you see them in most situations?

Neither violence nor sexual assault are rare, and men are usually the perpetrators. I will be very surprised if you, assuming you are female, have never been threatened. A man in an acknowledged female space, is already breaking rules and pushing boundaries. If he's not there accidentally, then he's aggressive. If the latter, you're in an enclosed space, probably alone, with someone most likely bigger, heavier and much stronger than you. Did that really need explaining?

Of all the assaults I’ve heard of carried out in toilets on either men or women they’ve all been carried out by men apart from Cheryl Cole/tweedy/whatever her name is now.

I'd probably say nothing but feel awkward if I'm honest.

I'd also worry I might be wrong. A friend thought a lady was a trans woman but nope, she was taking steroids which made her body shape a little unusual and she had some extra facial hair. To make someone suffering with a long term condition worse would worry me.

I'd likely do the Paddington stare without words though

I wonder how many women who claim to not have an issue with men in the ladies toilets would regulsrly use the mens toilets themselves. It not being a problem and all that.