“Symptoms of gender dysphoria” a mermaids tweet.

[NellieEllie]

I find this truly disgusting. This is a list of emotions that many teenagers feel. The ref to ASD and mental health issues is appalling.

mobile.twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1116689347342942208

AlwaysComingHome
I wouldn’t be very surprised if gender dysphoria is a response to feelings of alienation from others and to sensory issues associated with ASD; in other words GD might be an indicator your child is on the autistic spectrum rather than the other way round.

Yes that’s how I view it. If a supposedly neurotypical child is starting to talk about wanting to change sex, the first thing a doctor should do is refer to autism assessment. Rather than a clinic who will shove drugs at them. Let’s actually try and find out why they are feeling like they don’t fit in... just a thought, eh?

(In a similar way, if only the link had been known between eating disorders and ASD years ago, so many more young people presenting with an ED could have been referred and diagnosed earlier while treating the ED at the same time. Although at least treatment for ED didn’t involve validating the child saying they weren’t thin enough and offering medication and surgery to help them achieve that...)

Although, I am horrified to see how many already-diagnosed-autistic kids are being sent down the fucking irreversible medical pathway anyway. It’s a KNOWN THING, and puberty can be incredibly traumatic for those on the spectrum anyway so OF COURSE kids will want to avoid that... how can parents AND DOCTORS not stop and think, oh hang on, autism, let’s watch and wait. But instead it’s been latched onto in the wrong way by the wrong people and is being used almost as a reason to affirm even faster! Ohhhh you’re autistic too? Well no wonder you’re trans, here’s some pills to help you fit in, yay!!!

Chameleon behaviour is so so common in girls with autism, when you’re struggling with a changing body, potentially new huge secondary school and wondering why you aren’t like all the other girls, if someone offers you an accepting group, of course you’re going to latch on to it.

(My daughter is just like that, she becomes her friends. Every thread I read like this, I’m more and more relieved she stayed home ed instead of starting year 7 (plenty of woke HE families around of course but easily avoided and explained as being “some people believe XYZ but...”). Her latest thing is deciding she wants to be slytherin after being sorted happily into hufflepuff last year... she’s bought herself stuff to this effect and now self identifies as a slytherpuff ... just lucky that this does not involve altering her anatomy and fertility, I suppose .)

OldCrone
How can a sexually immature child, who is too young to legally engage in sexual activity, consent to a course of action which will mean that they never experience normal sexual function?

Having finally watched the Louis Theroux documentary the other week, this aspect makes me so sad. To have a massive and wonderful part of adulthood just blocked off before you’ve even tried it? To never be able to have a normal, spontaneous sex life (I followed a link on here once to info about how erections can be created by the push of a button, etc). Of course I don’t want to think about it, but why would I want my kids to miss out on that when they are adults? I’m worried enough about how they will navigate relationships as they try and live independently with autism.

FFS the 5 year olds aren’t going to really understand what sex is if they know of it at all, an 11yo is still in the “euwwww sex is gross and something I don’t wanna think about” phase especially if they’ve not had any puberty hormones flooding in yet. How on Earth can they make this choice?

And then the blockers just make it even less likely they’ll even consider it as something they might want to take part in when older, they still won’t be thinking about it when their peers are. I found myself wondering recently if part of the reason some parents jump for joy at puberty blockers is that subconsciously, they get their babies to be dependant and young for a lot longer...

I am fucking fuming at this. What the hell are NAS doing being associated with this lobby group? I am just outraged they’re using autism this way. For fucks sake how the hell do they get away with this?

'Decreasing gender dysphoria is a sign of gender dysphoria?'

If she survives - she's a witch.

If she's innocent - she'll drown.

I mean - look at the list of 'symptoms'.

Basically it's every teenager ever.

A quick and easy amateur diagnosis code for the over-busy healthcare professional.

I know the NAS have not done the right thing on this stuff (as on some other things). But this is flat earth stuff. If they don’t challenge this, what next? Will the refrigerator mother theory be allowed back in?

AlwaysComingHome
I wouldn’t be very surprised if gender dysphoria is a response to feelings of alienation from others and to sensory issues associated with ASD; in other words GD might be an indicator your child is on the autistic spectrum rather than the other way round.

This is my direct experience with children with asd and who became confused about gender.

Especially when much younger it was very much linked to sensory feedback from certain toys or clothing that was mostly associated with a gender stereotype.

And yet on the NAS website it's explicitly says not to consider this a factor. Nor any form of "special interest" and yet a great number of children with asd do have "special interests" or passions that they absolutely love and gain a great deal of joy from.

It's extremely difficult if it happens to be glittery things, flowing dresses and long hair (Disney princesses) if you are a boy. But the love of it and need of it as a structural reference is no different to another boy with a love of Thomas the Tank engine or dinosaurs.

What is noticeable in children with asd is that due to not always tuning into social peer pressures (which are gendered) they retain their passions or clothing preferences (often clothes that are more comfortable but not necessarily always particularly 'cool') beyond their peers.

Chris Packham has talked about his passion and the need for certain clothes; he buys several of the same item.

Look at Temple Grandin. I swear they'll attempt to trans her next but she absolutely explains it all extremely clearly in many books and documentaries. She wears the clothes that are practical for her work and that are comfortable. She always rejected dresses. She found her passion in cattle and revolutionised the cattle industry with her improved calming designs for slaughter management. She developed the squeeze box after watching cows become relaxed in vaccine cages and found great relief from the deep pressure.

sorry longer than I meant as usual

I’ve emailed NAS several times about the egregious shit they support via listing Mermaids on their web page. They’ve ignored me every time. Autistic adult contacts primary autism charity about serious concerns they have, deafening silence.

They were all over the DVLA when they did something autism-unfriendly - apparently making car drivers jump through administrative hoops is worse than literally sterilising children.

(Good point about binders as sensory relief; I’ve suspected that too. I used to wear a ‘body’ which provided similar if less extreme compression, made me less obviously female and was silver and glittery. I’d have been all over this as a teenager.)

Indeed neurotrash my DD was dinosaur mad until 11. DS at 9 adores my little pony. I remember DD getting really upset in reception because some of the boys were getting teased for wanting to dress up in the princess dresses, and she couldn’t understand what was wrong with it. The lovely teacher sat them all down and explained that anyone could wear what they wanted, you could be a boy in a princess dress.

I can’t help but imagine the conversation would be very different now

April 2018 Important extended La Scapigliata article,
"It is not “woman”, but “transgender”, that is a truly elusive term, and how this relates to the statistics of trans youth suicide"

(extract)
Evidence suggests that mental illness, and especially depression, anxiety, bipolar and dissociative disorder, is present in 70%] of individuals with gender dysphoria, either concurrently or at some time during their lifetime. Which brings me to another way by which suicidality in trans youth can be misinterpreted – by diagnosing them incorrectly.

In psychiatry, there exists a hierarchy of diagnoses.

IMG_1609 (see screenshot)

I’d also like to mention psychiatric symptom of ambivalence, which is particularly distressing when it involves one’s own body, sex, gender or sexuality. This ambivalence is not just wondering whether one might be attracted to the opposite sex as the normal stage in sexual development. This is ambivalence that arises from disordered thinking which characterises severe mental illness.

That a lot of mental illnesses tend to develop in youth, and are often accompanied by suicidal ideation and even attempts, illustrates the pitfall with trying to attribute suicidality to “being trans”. Mental illness doesn’t “co-occur” with transgenderism, in fact, symptoms which, in isolation, might justify someone’s inclusion under transgender umbrella, in context of mental illness higher up in the hierarchy, are more likely just symptoms of that illness.

This is important because if the person with mental illness is misdiagnosed as “trans”, and instead of being given treatment for mental illness is fast-tracked down the path of gender transition, it can severely impact their life.

There is a great book written by Walter Heyer , who himself detransitioned (male-to-female-back to male), that talks about this issue, as well as this survey of female detransitioners.

I’ve looked after a few trans patients who were admitted to the psychiatric ward on 1:1 suicide watch, due to repeated and relentless suicide attempts following gender reassignment surgery. Most of them had history of suicidal ideation and suicide attempts. What stays with me after all these years is that they were some of the most distressed patients I have ever seen. Their distress wasn’t only in realising that gender reassignment didn’t cure their troubling feelings, but in the fact that they now had to live with their bodies being mutilated irreversibly. It goes without saying that severe psychological distress doesn’t lend itself to the kind of self-care most of these procedures require post-op, which can lead to increased complications which further impact on the patient’s life in an iatrogenic (doctor-caused) vicious cycle that could’ve been avoided

These patients, and many others who suffer worsening physical and metal health following gender transition, are currently swiped under the rug, silenced like gender-critical people, and institutions are obstructing research into phenomenon of detransition, under the same accusations of heresy against trans ideology." (continues)

lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/2018/04/10/it-is-not-woman-but-transgender-that-is-a-truly-elusive-term-and-how-this-relates-to-the-statistics-of-trans-youth-suicide/

About the author,
"Writer, doctor, feminist. Wearer of many hats."

Youvegotaxes I've pondered the eugenics question myself in the past. Whilst I'm sure that for the majority of TRA it is a consequence rather than a driver I am not willing to make the same assumption regarding all those pulling the strings.

I also note that the current push results in making ASD a medical condition requiring drugs to treat. Which, of course, it is not. Which must be really frustrating to the pharmaceutical industry.

I'm still

R0wantrees - was just coming to post that about the hierarchy of diagnoses. It's vital information.

*Just looked at #EPATH 2019 thread. It's an official conference

I read through this yesterday, a synopsis of all the presentations and workshops over the 3 day conference.

It gives an indication of how much money there is sploshing about in the trans industry.*

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf" target="_blank">https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf

Extremely long list of abstracts I have saved to look at in closer detail when I have time.
I used to go to BMUS (ultrasound) conferences and there was lots of money developing the technology etc but nowhere near this number of presentations and workshops. It's a huge conference - a massive growth industry.

This is unbefuckinglievable, co-opting every single MH condition from the fucking DSM. Ive just tweeted it at @BipolarUK. As a bipolar lesbian who hated my developing body and resented the role society had in store for me I would’ve been ripe for the plucking when I was a young teen.

If you no longer feel you have gender dysphoria, that is a SIGN that you have gender dysphoria. Is that a bit, well, mad?
NellieEllie Reminds me of the lists of abuse indications that were passed around amongst therapistsduring the Satanic Abuse panic of the 1980/90s. One of the indicators was a child denying they had been abused!
And yes, almost any normal childhood behaviour was on the list as well.

I had spots as a teenager. Maybe that was a symptom too? Also large boobs that I was shy about (oh not that was shy about having grown men make gritty comments and suggestions to me about them - as a schoolgirl in my school uniform).

Whatis it’s terrifying isn’t it, how many of us would have been prime targets for this.

I had the double whammy of being undiagnosed autistic and a victim of CSA. Bullied at school, in danger at home. It’s no wonder that I was convinced I could be George from the famous five, and then wanted to be a real boy. It was as much about wanting to escape to a life where the only dangers were trapdoors and comedy villains as it was about rejecting femaleness. Because life as myself was shit - why wouldn’t I want to be someone else?

But if you say that now, that vulnerable kids like us got through our questioning, and turned into happy adults, you get shouted down. Oh, you obviously weren’t really trans then. Um, no, we weren’t, that’s the point. 🤦‍♀️

I wish autistic people were better served by their national charity. NAS is a disgrace.

I should say that they have been no help, and not been a source of any useful information, over the decade I have been knowingly parenting an autistic child. And every one I know says the same - useless bunch of oxygen thieves, by and large. But this is different. This is egregious misinformation with clear potentiality for harm to the people they exist to protect.
If they won’t listen, maybe retweet to Andrew Giiligan or some of the other journalists with guts? I can see the front page splash now. Sort of story he does so very well.

I think that NAS must respond to this claim surely? An autism diagnosis being listed as a symptom of gender dysphoria is something they should have a view on, one way or another. If they refuse to engage, they are really letting autistic children down in a big way. I can’t see it being viewed as anything short of scandalous in a few years - when the implications of the affirming approach are clear. (Obviously scandalous right now to any reasonable person).

Well, I must be suffering from gender dysphoria. What a load of shite. Thats how teenagers feel! Its called being a fucking human! I worry about what my son will see as he is growing up.

@TheBullshitGoesOn I agree. Even more, I think many people on the ground are acting in good faith, believing they are doing the right thing.

Behind the scenes - not so much.

Is NAS still promoting mermaids? I remember they took them down, but then put it back up after TRAs complained..

Home educate is my advice. Keep children out of school and away from this ideology. I'm autistic, I'd have been targeted as I didn't fit gender rubbish.

It IS eugenics.

NAS has a conference coming up on gender and sexuality - stonewall backed/linked speakers, another who was a man born in a female body [sic]. One of the speakers is talking about supporting children in schools.

Guess which city it is being held in??