FFS lesbians are not the same threat to women.

[KennDodd]

I see this a lot in threads about transwoman or men having access to women and women's spaces. It came up on the thread about male midwives. men are generally (almost always) bigger and stronger than women and commit violent crime at a level many times greater than women (even lesbians ) do. Men are a threat to women, lesbians] are no greater threat than any other woman.

And, I know, most men are lovely, I'm married to one.

Some seem to want to make it sexual, like a woman should be worried about a lesbian ogling them, when that's not the point at all.

Yes there is always an asinine comparison “what if it were a Black woman?” (How Racist) or “what if it were a lesbian!” (Homophobic).

Neither of these above are even remotely like men in any way (hence why they are such offensive questions).

It's desperation.

When you know you don't have an actual argument, DEFLECT, DEFLECT, DEFLECT!

Drives me insane, and also makes an incredibly naive assumption that men are a danger to women because they find us attractive.

I don't know of they are actually dense/homophobic/racist enough to believe what they're saying in these examples or if they're just so outraged that women may not want men near them they're desperately clutching at straws.

I know, it's madness. Gaslighting on a monumental scale.

98% sexual crime is committed by men, men are stronger.

The prisons are not full of lesbian women - they are full of male sexual predators.

It's really simple. Lesbians are WOMEN so they are welcome in any spaces reserved for the cunty kind of women.

TRAs use this pathetic excuse for an argument all the time - 'well how do you feel about LESBIANS in your space then! HA!' as if it's the ultimate gotcha. Stupid and ignorant.

I feel fine about lesbians in our spaces, thanks, because they are women and that's how we segregate certain facilities.

also makes an incredibly naive assumption that men are a danger to women because they find us attractive.

Exactly!

It displays continuing, massive ignorance about the actual threat men pose to all women and secondly - crucially in my opinion - why many girls and women (for a variety of reasons) do not or cannot be in specific spaces with any man present.

That I have seen many instances of women failing to understand my second point makes me very, very angry with them. What they fail to realise is that their support for men to have unfettered access (which is what supporting self-id into women's spaces will do) to women's spaces will effectively drive a lot of women and girls out of such spaces and massively restrict women's access.

I saw an American female footballer say on Twitter yesterday that she supported TW in women's sports. Apart from the astonishing lack of thinking about how this will drive women out, the ignorance of such a view - girls and women have only been allowed to play organised football in the UK since the late 70s, for example - is right out of the 'send women back where they belong' playbook.

I object to men in female only spaces
Lesbians are female so why would I object to that?
Total deflection and whattaboutery

Yeah. Like we're all so scared of the lesbian in a dark alley...

Nothing could make it clearer that those posing what they fondly believe is a gotcha have zero understanding of what it is to be female

It's from the same stable as 'You should be flattered' and 'No one would want to rape you anyway, you're ugly'. Exactly the same assumptions behind it, plus a nice hefty slice of homophobic othering into the mix. Blech.

Yes, it’s incredibly irritating and borne from a place of lesbophobia and total disregard for the threat men pose and why. Complete ignorance.

That point was raised in answer to the posts questioning why men would want to become midwives or gynaecologists though wasn't it? Basically suggesting that there was a sexual motivation for men choosing those careers.

Some posters were pointing out that it wasn't only men attracted to women.

Surely that's the risk of using these types of arguments?

I’ve never once met a woman that gave me the creeps or made me feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

Theres no risk in having boundaries, other than it enrages men who want to violate them and women who want to enable that.

I’ve never been sexually assaulted by a lesbian
Never had a lesbian shout sexual comments at me in the street
Never had a lesbian try and pressure me into sex
Never been threatened with violence by a lesbian when I wasn’t incredibly grateful for her “advances”
Never had to report a Lesbian at work for creepy and sexist behaviour

The simple fact is, we don't want males in females spaces. Not even if those males are performing societal-prescribed femininity, no matter what their inner sense of gender identity is. Women's spaces are for females.

Rose West is brought up frequently in these arguments too. Again, the simple fact is, Rose West belongs in a women's prison. Karen White and Jacintha, and this person do not.

There is a different between a 'sexual motivation for choosing a certain career' because it may provide access to women from a trusted position of authority, and being oriented towards women in general sexuality. The fact that some men are heterosexual is not why we restrict their access to women - it's because they are men, and statistically more likely to be predators, and sexual predation is not an orientation, it's very often a power trip.

Lesbians are women who are oriented towards women sexually. The crucial part is that they are not men, therefore the restrictions we apply to men for other reasons then their heterosexuality are not relevant.

Okay so even if we do reduce it to sexual attraction, I do not assume a lesbian would attack me or attempt to intimidate me if they were attracted to me. I know for a fact that a lot of men would and do. Add to that the fact that I know a lot of men might also attack me if they are disgusted by me, threatened by me, offended by me etc...

What drives the unarguable fact that over 90% of sexual and violent offences are committed by men?

Is is testosterone alone?

In that case would there not be reports of T-stoked transmen going berserk and molesting the objects of their desire, (regardless of sex)?

And in that case wouldn't ALL men be constantly groping, grabbing, etc etc?

Is it male socialisation plus centuries of constantly reinforced mysogyny and porn?

It is so disrespectful to lesbians who have massively disproportionately to their numbers promoted and protected the rights of women and girls.

To equate lesbians to men in this way is ridiculous, as though sexual attraction alone is what results in people committing rape and assault.

I am very grateful for the amazing sacrifices that many lesbians have made for the benefit of all women and children.

I think it is ludicrous to say that women, of any sexual orientation, are never guilty of making unwanted sexual advances, to either other women or men.

That's not saying that women pose the same danger as men, merely saying that on a social level, rather than a criminal level, women can also behave inappropriately towards others.

The fact that some men are heterosexual is not why we restrict their access to women - it's because they are men, and statistically more likely to be predators, and sexual predation is not an orientation, it's very often a power trip.

^

No one says it is not possible for women to behave inappropriately, LittleChristmasMouse. But what makes you think if a woman is a lesbian she is more likely to be one of the women who do?