How would you feel about having a male midwide

[Lardlizard]

Just interested in the points of view

Sleeping women feel uncomfortable in vulnerable situations with men around because there is no way to know which of them are “decent”.

It really isn't the same. Privacy and dignity in single sex spaces is completely different.

How do you explain male physicians in childbirth settings?

You trot out this phrase “proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim” as if it’s easy in law to establish that. It isn’t.

I know men I know like my dad, my brothers, male friends are lovely sensitive men, but I wouldn't expect other women to be ok with being put in a vulnerable situation with them.

I’d be happy to be looked after by a male midwife... I think for a man to enter such a female-centric profession they must have a real passion and drive to do it. More power to them!

Wanting to increase the number of male midwives just makes it more likely that a woman will end up forced to have one through lack of other options. There is no good reason to want the number of male midwives increased, when midwifery is specifically about the intimate care of females. I find anyone wanting to argue for the rights of men to be midwives including how women should be more accepting really odd tbh.

They could be absolutely lovely men and many women wouldn't be comfortable.

I wouldn't be comfortable. Because my lifelong experience has led me to feel more comfortable when I'm in a vulnerable physical situation, with women, rather than men. (Everything else being equal, of course). It's not personal.

Plus, I'd rather pick a cohort where at least I might have a stab at picking someone who has gone through the same thing as me.

In any event, banning males from becoming MWs would be direct discrimination anyway and can’t be objectively justified in that way. Given the law had to be changed to allow males to become MWs to comply with equality legislation, good luck with that

Ereshkigal

You do not know the reasons as to why a woman might prefer a male hcp over a female hcp.

I am not forcing you to accept a male midwife and my choice has no impact on you whatsoever.

So, no, my preferences are not sexist. They are personal to me based on my past experiences.

I believe that those who carry out mammograms are female only. They have managed to do that without flouting equality law.

Sleeping women feel uncomfortable in vulnerable situations with men around because there is no way to know which of them are “decent”.

Most are. Personally I assume that all medical people are decent. Of course there are exceptions but I wouldn't want to spend my life thinking all men are potentially a threat, especially health professionals. I would feel constantly on alert which isn't healthy and is unnecessary. I do feel very sorry for women who feel this way.

How do you explain male physicians in childbirth settings?

It's not about what is the reality, it's whether it's a reasonable opinion, as a couple of posters proposed, that midwifery should be covered by sex based exemptions. It's you who isn't understanding. Go and argue with them if you don't like it. Some occupations can be restricted to women only. The question is whether midwifery should be one of them. I don't know. But I don't want male HCPs to perform intimate care on me in general.

With dd2 there was a shift change as soon as she was born and a male midwife took over for the stitching and clean up part. He was very emphatic and spent a lot of time with us as I'd had a severe reaction to remifentanil, to be brutally honest I wish he'd been there the whole labour

Sagradafamiliar

Yes I would if I were given a choice, same as I always request the male GP.

There is no good reason to want the number of male midwives increased, when midwifery is specifically about the intimate care of females.

There are a couple of good reasons. One is that there is a huge shortage of nurses and midwives and increasing the pool of candidates could increase coverage and unsure that more women get the care they need.

increasing the pool of candidates could also increase the skill level, as it does in almost every profession.

That’s not to say there aren’t issues because of the intimate nature of the role and the sexed nature of the patients. Just that there are potential positives too.

I wouldn't be comfortable. Because my lifelong experience has led me to feel more comfortable when I'm in a vulnerable physical situation, with women, rather than men. (Everything else being equal, of course). It's not personal.

I completely respect any woman's right to choose a female midwife, nurse etc.

Personally I am glad that I am comfortable with either sex. My only criteria is that they are competent and caring which is often sadly lacking.

So, no, my preferences are not sexist. They are personal to me based on my past experiences.

We don't get to pick and choose. It's reasonable to ask for a same sex HCP as it's an issue of privacy and dignity. If you have other needs/requests then they may honour them, or they may not. I hope they do. But it is not the same thing as a woman not wanting men to perform intimate care.

Little that's why I asked if you go private, you aren't routinely given the choice in NHS hospitals. I've never been asked upon going to the labour ward, if I'm happy with a female midwife, I've had whoever is on shift. (I've been lucky to be given any but that's a different thread).
Given that most midwives are female, I'm more inclined to think you're just being contrary. There is always one!

But these male midwives are not showing these behaviours. Some men do need to change. But until they do, you really think decent men should all be judged the same and not get to be a midwife. I would hate to be personally judged because a group I 'belonged to' had some people in it which were bad.

Nobody is entitled to be my midwife. I however, am entitled to set my personal boundaries when it comes to my body. I do not know who is or isn’t a sexual predator just by looking at them, if I did I wouldn’t be a victim of sexual harassment and serious sexual assault. What you’re doing is blaming women who have this discomfort, for feelings that they cannot help based on a lifetime of male behaviour which has caused it. My DH isn’t a midwife, but he is a man and he does not feel at all offended if a woman walks to the other side of the street if he’s walking behind, or makes other risk assessment decisions around him. He feels cross with the men that make women feel this way, he doesn’t expect women to feel discomfort for his benefit.

At my last birth, I had female midwives, registrar, house paediatrician etc and one male student doctor.

The student doctor was the one who did my vaginal examination and broke the waters. This took forever, because he was particularly inept and fumbly, and the saving grace was that he was sat in the waters that he broke so got his knickers wet. . The midwife had to be there - it would have been better if she had done it which is what happened the first time round.

There was no attempt to explain anything from him, but also nothing from the registrar who had to be got out of bed and was in panic mode. They were all inept in their own way, during what was a totally chaotic experience.

I still prefer a mostly female chaotic scary experience to a mostly male version.

The male registrar appeared once on the ward round and that was enough.

Most are. Personally I assume that all medical people are decent. Of course there are exceptions but I wouldn't want to spend my life thinking all men are potentially a threat, especially health professionals. I would feel constantly on alert which isn't healthy and is unnecessary. I do feel very sorry for women who feel this way.

Most men in general are decent. That doesn’t stop a quarter of women experiencing rape or attempted rape in their lifetimes. Statistically and logically (given our culture encourages men to see women as sexual objects), restricting access to your body in vulnerable situations to other women is likely to be significantly safer. Doing so can mean fewer opportunities, however, so women need to make choices.

Given that most midwives are female, I'm more inclined to think you're just being contrary. There is always one!

This person has made versions of this argument before. They're watering down the idea of women's privacy and dignity around men being a right.

The shortage of midwives needs to be addressed, by making it easier for women to train with cutting fees, providing bursaries etc. I was really arguing against the posts saying that men should actively be encouraged to train as midwives in order to challenge stereotypes and that women should be more accepting about having one.

I would feel constantly on alert which isn't healthy and is unnecessary. I do feel very sorry for women who feel this way.

It is NOT unnecessary. Do you have any idea how often women are harassed and abused? We make risk assessments all the time based on our experiences and advice so often given to women. If you genuinely feel sorry for women that feel this way, stop making it worse by using language that blames women for our valid feelings.

Boom there is a shortage but it's actually incredibly difficult to get onto a midwifery uni course due to the sheer number of applicants. It's not down to a lack of people trying to get into the discipline.

I never said that they are, though they could be.

I do not propose to "pick and choose" merely state a preference in exactly the same way that you can only state a preference for a female hcp. If you got rushed into a and e you couldn't choose who looked after you (well you could refuse male hcps I guess but if no female dr or surgeon were available you would be a bit stuck).

I will choose when I can - my GP, physio etc. If I were offered a male midwife then I would accept.