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Original poster

Possible Jordan Peterson webchat on MN

476 replies

GeordieGenes · 08/04/2019 14:44

If you go over to site stuff, MN are asking posters if they would like a webchat with Jordan Peterson! The thread is pretty negative, but I think it would be great to ask him about gender critical issues. He's one of the only Canadian voices we have!

If you think this would be good, please go and say so on the thread! Smile

OP posts:
deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 10:14

I hate how whenever I say I don't like Jordan Peterson it's inevitable someone will say that I just don't understand what he's saying, or I haven't heard enough of him.
It puts me in mind of teenage boyfriends insisting that I read 'fear and loathing in Las Vegas' again because if I find the part where his friend rapes a teenager and then leaves her in the desert upsetting it's because I'm just not getting it.

This.

I listened to Peterson a lot and with an open mind. But what context makes 'wouldn't you [as a woman] be happier to work in a profession that reflects what you are good at, like your inborn drive to care for others?' anything but tone deaf sexism?

deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 10:17

Just for the record, I was at no point refering to the Jordan Peterson vs. Cathy Newman interview.

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 10:20

But what context makes 'wouldn't you [as a woman] be happier to work in a profession that reflects what you are good at, like your inborn drive to care for others?' anything but tone deaf sexism?

Exactly this. I excel in my job because I am very driven and good at organizing and leading people, including a number of men who are not natural leaders. I spent a number of years thinking a certain raft of professions were more 'appropriate' for a woman. I am happier now than I have been in my life.

Peterson's bells and whistles just don't impress me at all, and it doesn't matter how many of his fans tell me I just haven't watched enough of his indulgently droning YouTube videos to understand that actually, I really should embrace my non existent womanly desire to wipe arsed, it's just not a convincing argument.

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 10:21

Arsed = arses. Obviously.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 10:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yeahnahyeah · 09/04/2019 10:23

The irony of supporting de-platforming the guy, when it's us GC's who have a serious problem with being de-platformed ourselves.

deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 10:25

Who insists on no-platforming?

Datun · 09/04/2019 10:27

"He's not a feminist, and therefore doesn't come at transactivism through a feminist lens. Just through a free speech one. Which is a fairly black-and-white convo."

Does it matter? Far more people (many of whom never normally engage in anything much) are sitting up and listening to him and thinking seriously about the TRA issue than are listening to you lot. The enemy of your enemy doesn't also have to be your enemy.

He's not my enemy. He's just not relevant to me

Furrytoebean · 09/04/2019 10:28

It's just that I get the distinct impression that many of his detractors base their reasoning pretty much entirely on reading what other people say about him, or on reading comments beneath youtube videos from a some unintelligent, woman-hating inadequate men, and assume that if they are finding it of interest then there can't possibly be anything of merit to be taken from it. Or from passages of books or sections of the lectures without having heard the wider context.

I don't think that's true at all.
I think that's just a really easy way to dismiss peoples views of him.

'I don't like this about peterson'
'Noooo Peterson doesn't say that'
'But this is exactly what he said'
'Noooo you need to see it in context'
'Ok here's the context'
'Noooo you just don't understand him'

PineapplePower · 09/04/2019 10:29

And think he is helping many young men turn their lives around with his 12 rules

This alone makes him worth listening to. I know a handful of men that have improved themselves (i.e. left the basement) through JP.

If you wouldn’t like to have him here, that’s fine. Or that you wouldn’t be interested in a webchat is ok.

But to imply he’s some sort of individual with dangerous ideas? That must be a narrow band of people you’d listen to or engage/debate with. Don’t be like the TRAs and try to deplatform when you don’t like the arguments. It’s bad when they do it and it’s also bad when we do it.

There are people here like me who’d be interested in speaking with JP on feminism. He doesn’t get into it often (I suspect we know why), but would genuinely like to have a conversation about it. Don’t derail it because you think you might not like what he says.

Furrytoebean · 09/04/2019 10:37

This alone makes him worth listening to. I know a handful of men that have improved themselves (i.e. left the basement) through JP

Why exactly does this make him worth having a webchat on the feminist board?
Is he helping those men treat women better? Is he even interested in feminism?

Tony Robbins helps men turn their lives around too, should we have a chat with him?

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 10:37

I'm not sure the simple answers in the negative on this thread constitute 'no platforming'. No one is campaigning to not let him come on MN. They're just answering the question on whether they would welcome the visit, which is fine, isn't it?

Why are people trying to compare this to AWAs phoning venues and issuing threats to get Julie Bindel removed from events? You do realize this kind of bullshit argument is one of the reasons some of us are not especially keen on Peterson?

Oh, and the leaden predictability of a thread on Peterson with dissenting voices on it also having the phrase 'man haters' on it. Fucksake.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 10:39

Isn't saying 'we don't want him here because he's a misogynist with nothing to say that we want to hear' basically the same thing as no-platforming?

What will happen if MNHQ decide to go ahead in spite of a split opinion, is that the people who didn't want him here at all will not just ignore it and choose to go to Asda instead, they'll be champing at the bit to go into battle.

But it's perfectly okay - if you really don't want to hear him - to just ...not hear him. Go about your business. Leave it to those who do. You don't have a duty to protest. It's not like he is Hitler. Hmm

In fact the question from MNHQ shouldn't be 'Do you want JBP for a web chat or would you rather not?'

It should be 'if you'd like a web chat with JBP then please post here so we can gauge whether there is sufficient interest.'

Because if you are not interested in hearing him then there is no need to concern yourself with any of it.

Unless your motivation is to no-platform him.

Original poster
GeordieGenes · 09/04/2019 10:39

The web chat wouldn’t be specifically for FWR. It would be for Mumsnet in general.

OP posts:
deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 10:41

It's just that I get the distinct impression that many of his detractors base their reasoning pretty much entirely on reading what other people say about him,...

I am pretty sure I have watched at least one day (24 hours) of original, uncut Jordan Peterson footage within the past two years. AT LEAST. (It is quite remarkable how he drones on about totalitarism in the Sowjet Union and forensic work on how totalitarianism is enforced without ever mentioning the ANALOGOUS but DEEPER, PRECEDING work on Fascism by Hannah Arendt. If Peterson should ever mention Hanna Arendt somewhere, please shoot me a link).

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 10:42

Why exactly does this make him worth having a webchat on the feminist board?

Is the web chat going to be on the Feminist board? I thought all web chats were just on a general section for web chats?

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 10:43

Answering a question about whether you think a specific we chat guest would be good is not no platforming. God, the fecking dramatics.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 10:43

crossed posts, thanks Geordie as I thought.

Furrytoebean · 09/04/2019 10:45

ellen

By that logic you're no-platforming all the people who are saying they aren't interested.

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 10:45

No, a webchat wouldn't be on FWR. It would be on MN webchats. This particular thread has been set here, so I suspect there has been some confusion in that regard.

BadPennyNoBiscuit · 09/04/2019 10:48

This alone makes him worth listening to. I know a handful of men that have improved themselves (i.e. left the basement) through JP

And that just highlights the problem; JP says nothing that your Mum and your teachers didnt say to you.
So making him out to be some kind of ground breaking guru is massively missing the point.
Men who can't hear their mothers can apparently hear JP, and that is the definition of an echo chamber.

He hasn't changed or challenged anything. Those men have now 'left the basement' and they still cant hear women.

WeRiseUp · 09/04/2019 10:50

Answering a question about whether you think a specific we chat guest would be good is not no platforming. God, the fecking dramatics.

YEAH - I am reading this thread and i'm still on the fence. I don't feel pushed either way.

One of the things about MN is the members are right opinionated fuckers. It is ridiculous to imagine that only people with a positive interest in a proposed Web chat is going to respond.

Anything MN proposed in fact, not just web chats, would have opinionated fuckers all over it.

deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 10:51

Answering a question about whether you think a specific we chat guest would be good is not no platforming. God, the fecking dramatics.

Spot the analogy:
'I don't think it will be a productive discussion.' -> 'literal no-platforming!'
'I don't think women can have penises.'->'literal anihilation!'

A rule in life that has served me well: If you might not like the answer, just don't ask. Hmm

WeRiseUp · 09/04/2019 10:52

Those men have now 'left the basement' and they still cant hear women.

Sage words....

Part of me wishes you'd say that to him directly though ... Grin

Datun · 09/04/2019 10:55

Anything MN proposed in fact, not just web chats, would have opinionated fuckers all over it.

Ooh, they should so adopt that as their strap line.

Mumsnet - it's got opinionated fuckers all over it.

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