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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Possible Jordan Peterson webchat on MN

476 replies

GeordieGenes · 08/04/2019 14:44

If you go over to site stuff, MN are asking posters if they would like a webchat with Jordan Peterson! The thread is pretty negative, but I think it would be great to ask him about gender critical issues. He's one of the only Canadian voices we have!

If you think this would be good, please go and say so on the thread! Smile

OP posts:
JackyHolyoake · 08/04/2019 18:01

not wanting someone on a specific internet forum isn't an interference with the right to free speech.

I am unaware that anyone is compelling anyone else to participate in such an event. Anyone opposed to such a web chat has the choice to avoid it on the day, surely?

Ereshkigal · 08/04/2019 18:01

I think he should come and chat. Then we can moan about either his answers or his deflections - I think he's unlikely to run away.

Agree.

MagicMix · 08/04/2019 18:07

But we already know he doesn't have a favourite biscuit due to consuming exclusively beef.

Katterinaballerina · 08/04/2019 18:10

See speech offences

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/human-rights/free-speech-and-protest/speech-offences

FermatsTheorem · 08/04/2019 18:17

Can't say I'd be particularly interested in taking part. As a female scientist who knows how many social and cultural barriers there are to female progress in my profession, I'm inclined to take his "the data are in" claim vis-a-vis men liking stuff and women liking people with a pinch of salt. Yes, there are many more men in scientific professions and women in caring professions - but the bare numbers don't tell us anything. They don't tell us why.

We still haven't got a test which can tell us whether it's nature or nurture. Yes, I know his claim is "look at the Nordic countries, they've done more than anyone else to remove barriers to women's participation - yet women still aren't rushing for those jobs" - but as we all know, legislation and workplace culture are two different things. You can have laws on paper saying you've got a right to long maternity leave, your partner gets just as much paternity leave, you have a right to flexible working, you have a right to equal pay. But it's quite possible for all those legislative aspects to be in place and for the culture to still be putting up barriers. Or for those legislative aspects to be in place but "more honoured in the breach than the observance."

(I had to take my last employer to court to get equal pay - the law was there, hence I won, but my employer certainly wasn't going to do it off their own bat. And I was lucky in being in a unionised environment, so there was a union to bear the legal costs and financial risk on our behalf, and in a workplace with enough decent men prepared to step forward that we could get workplace comparators to prove the case. Those are the sort of soft, cultural issues that act along side the law.)

However, Peterson has spent his adult life building up a repertoire of obscure test cases and facts about different legal systems, and is a very polished performer and polemicist - I know that short of putting in inordinate amounts of time picking his writing apart, reference by reference, he'd simply do a Gish gallop. So I'm inclined to view any such webchat as wasted time and effort on my part.

But if other people fancy it... I'm inclined to agree with posters on here and on the site stuff thread - it'd be hard to see how it could be worse than Penny Mordaunt's efforts.

Sitdownstandup · 08/04/2019 18:20

I am unaware that anyone is compelling anyone else to participate in such an event. Anyone opposed to such a web chat has the choice to avoid it on the day, surely?

Could you clarify why you quoted my post when you wrote this?

GeordieGenes · 08/04/2019 18:31

Peterson is a parent himself. If Mumsnet is for parents, then he’s welcome surely?

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 08/04/2019 18:35

We also don’t have to invite people into our personal space to listen to them give their opinion, be that my MIL or Jordan Peterson

MN isn't your personal space.

Sitdownstandup · 08/04/2019 18:37

As a poster perhaps, assuming he sticks to the forum rules of course. As a webchat subject, I'm not sure how him being a parent is relevant.

LassOfFyvie · 08/04/2019 18:38

This has shit all to do with free speech, really. Nobody has a right to free speech on a particular internet forum, and not wanting someone on a specific internet forum isn't an interference with the right to free speech

Depends if you (general you) thinks not wanting someone to speak gives you (general you) the right to dictate to MNHQ.

FermatsTheorem · 08/04/2019 18:41

As I understand it, MN have put the thread on site stuff to gauge interest. No point in having someone on if they get one question about biscuits. There's no suggestion that any individual user has a right of veto.

Sitdownstandup · 08/04/2019 18:45

Even then, it doesn't really lass. There simply isn't a right to free speech on MN. I guess if people are arguing that there should be, that's one thing, but it's not the legal reality.

AutumnCrow · 08/04/2019 18:47

He totally believes in lady brain, he just thinks only women have it

Excellent summary

LassOfFyvie · 08/04/2019 18:48

I don't think freedom of speech means having a right to be invited onto every platform to publicise your current work for free

You really think Peterson needs the advertising space? MNHQ have a right to invite whoever they want. Some of the responses on here are ridiculous.

MN is a personal space for a women as a group. Yes, there are men who post but it’s one of the few places online which is female dominated

What tosh. MN is not a personal space for anyone. Many forums don't allow content or all content to be viewed by non- members. All the content here is available to see for anyone who cares to look without even having to join. It's about as far from a "personal space" online as I can think of.

As for being "female dominated" so what if it is (it's not even a particular attraction for me) but that means only female voices should be heard?

Ereshkigal · 08/04/2019 18:49

But we already know he doesn't have a favourite biscuit due to consuming exclusively beef.

Grin
LassOfFyvie · 08/04/2019 18:53

Even then, it doesn't really lass. There simply isn't a right to free speech on MN. I guess if people are arguing that there should be, that's one thing, but it's not the legal reality

I don't follow what you are on about. MNHQ own this site. They can ask whoever they want to speak. The notion that some posters can stamp their feet, dictate that Peterson should not be invited and that MNHQ should do what these posters want is ridiculous, precious and childish.

NewWomensMovement · 08/04/2019 18:55

I am on the fence. If MNHQ kept it to established posters and told him to avoid waffling it could be quite interesting.

In the UK we don't have the same reverence for waffly wordwank that they have in Canada and the US - the bracing exchange could be good for him.

We must be able to respond to his responses in real time though- not like Penny Pissweak.

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/04/2019 18:56

I find I am stuck on his comment that "women are chaos". I don't see why any women needs to debate their existence as a valid human with someone who thinks that.

I'm sure I'll be told that isn't what he means, it's all terribly complicated and not meant badly at all, and if only I listened to 74 hours of YouTube videos I would understand.

FerdinandAndHisMassiveBalls · 08/04/2019 18:56

I wouldn't expect a forum for black people in the UK to invite a BNP member round for a chat, they're never going to agree.

I don't see why we'd invite JP round to tell us that women are a bit shit, but hey it's not our fault, it's biology.

I wouldn't mind Mn inviting a TRA because there is a current debate raging that we can address.

I would expect a university to host JP because young people should be exposed ti conflicting ideologies so they can learn to think for thenselves.

Jp coming in to MN to tell a group of women (many of whom have STEM careers) that women are just different to men is just a bit pointless.

There were arguments and debates that our mothers HAD to have to get change. Debating with dinosaurs about things we've already proved is bullshit just lets them seem legitimate.

NewWomensMovement · 08/04/2019 18:57

He believes a load of Jungian bollocks though

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/04/2019 18:59

No one is dictating anything to MNHQ. People are giving their opinions, as asked for. It is absurd to characterise that as "The notion that some posters can stamp their feet, dictate that Peterson should not be invited and that MNHQ should do what these posters want is ridiculous, precious and childish."

LassOfFyvie · 08/04/2019 19:06

It is absurd to characterise that as "The notion that some posters can stamp their feet, dictate that Peterson should not be invited and that MNHQ should do what these posters want is ridiculous, precious and childish."

You are of course free to think that although since I posted a couple of more ridiculous objections have appeared.

Freespeecher · 08/04/2019 19:08

Peterson is the BNP? Rilly?

I'd be interested to see him taken to task over the whole 'woman are chaos' thing.

Needmoresleep · 08/04/2019 19:09

On one level I am not to bothered whether he is invited or not.

On another I completely reject the idea that MN needs to be some sort of safe space. And that should all fit some ideal of left leaning, Guardian reading feminist, with no dissent allowed.

So invite him on, and let’s argue with him. Robust debate will help hone our own views, and perhaps have him reconsider/evolve his.

Erythronium · 08/04/2019 19:10

Isn't he an MRA? What would be the point?

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