Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Possible Jordan Peterson webchat on MN

476 replies

GeordieGenes · 08/04/2019 14:44

If you go over to site stuff, MN are asking posters if they would like a webchat with Jordan Peterson! The thread is pretty negative, but I think it would be great to ask him about gender critical issues. He's one of the only Canadian voices we have!

If you think this would be good, please go and say so on the thread! Smile

OP posts:
GirlDownUnder · 09/04/2019 08:39

Im weak though so I probably would engage. God help me I cant avoid a good troll fight.

Hahaha you are so right - grey rock is hard!

Appreciate your point though, that this #nodebate is different to the TWAW but unless (general) we (and not me cos I can't debate for toffee!) talk to people like PJ and by extension the lurkers might we not change his mind?

Ellen I will read more around him.

FerdinandsMighyTesticles · 09/04/2019 08:41

In what sense ellen? Do you actually believe women have a responsibility to engage with every man?

He is a Canadian academic, he isn't a lobbyist or a politican. His views are no more important than Bob down the pub and last I checked we didn't invite Bob round to tell us that "if God wanted women to have real jobs he wouldn't have given them tits"

FerdinandsMighyTesticles · 09/04/2019 08:45

I think in a place like Reddit GirlDownUnder it would be useful for lurkers. Here the lurkers are either intelligent women or the MRAs who follow him over and I'd say unlikely to change their minds. Just my thought.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:50

Do you actually believe women have a responsibility to engage with every man?

No. I still didn't like the tone of what you said though. do you give credence to any feminist academics? After all, they are only academics, not lobbyists or politicians.

GirlDownUnder don't do more reading around him, do more reading/listening of him.

What other people write about him is irrelevant. You won't learn much about him that way.

deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 08:54

He has a tendency to give VERY LONGWINDED answers that sometimes take him a while to formulate. Fair enough - he's talking about some very complex stuff. And he thinks on his feet. Quite literally.

And herein lies the rub. He will frame the issue as he sees fit. In order to get anywhere this longwinded answer should be the starting point in pointing out his logical fallacies and sometimes his unjustified assumptions. That won't be possible, so the result will be him lecturing us without being meaningfully challenged.

Oh well.

FerdinandsMighyTesticles · 09/04/2019 08:58

Oh so you're offended by my tone because I implied he wasnt special enough? Grin and I must be unbalanced because I haven't shown enough deference to the MRA ?

Being an academic does not make your opinion more important than anyone else's, no.

birdsdestiny · 09/04/2019 08:59

Yes sorry but what you are saying is ridiculous he is an academic, writer and psychologist , he is not Bob down the pub. I don't agree with many of his views but then again I am not frightened of listening to people with different views to mine. Bloody hell I regularly read owen jones twitter in order that I can hear a different view, if I can manage that I am sure we can manage to listen to Jordan Peterson.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 09/04/2019 09:03

We survived two days of SH onslaught

WeRiseUp · 09/04/2019 09:04

His views are no more important than Bob down the pub and last I checked we didn't invite Bob round to tell us that "if God wanted women to have real jobs he wouldn't have given them tits"

GrinGrin

deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 09:04

We survived two days of SH onslaught

Who?

FerdinandsMighyTesticles · 09/04/2019 09:05

Can we get James Watson on as well? He's a scientist so we have to give equal time to his belief that women and black people are just not as clever as white men. Super fun ideas about letting mothers choose to not have gay babies once we figure out where the gay gene is.

FerdinandsMighyTesticles · 09/04/2019 09:06

Sh?

Anyone remember the weirdos we got after Russel brand? Confused

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 09:06

Bloody hell I regularly read owen jones twitter in order that I can hear a different view, if I can manage that I am sure we can manage to listen to Jordan Peterson.

Exactly! And if we don't bother giving due consideration to people who are merely academics then the archive of the Feminism boards would be a very, very small archive indeed!

nettie434 · 09/04/2019 09:07

He totally believes in lady brain, he just thinks only women have it, shock jock academic

Smile There are some funny replies on this thread. I have seen his interviews with Cathy Newman and Helen Lewis. Think he would enjoy point scoring rather then debating. And the publicity. Mind you, he would not get an easy ride on Mumsnet.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 09/04/2019 09:07

Stephanie Hayden!

Grey rock mutters grey rock

FerdinandsMighyTesticles · 09/04/2019 09:12

Don't worry Ellen no one is going to stop you from fan girling over guy. The OP wants to know what people think. This is what I think. This is ironically how debates work. Using words like "unbalanced" for people who don't agree with you isn't great debating. It shows you havent god anything meaningful or intelligent to add It probably goes against talk guidlines for ablist language as well.

Wasabiaddiction · 09/04/2019 09:22

I think he is very interesting (and very misrepresented).

I have enjoyed many of his YouTube videos on his biblical analysis. And think he is helping many young men turn their lives around with his 12 rules.

I would be very interested in having a web chat.

deepwatersolo · 09/04/2019 09:45

Stephanie Hayden!

Oye.

Datun · 09/04/2019 09:46

Think he would enjoy point scoring rather then debating. And the publicity.

Inclined to agree.

He's not a feminist, and therefore doesn't come at transactivism through a feminist lens. Just through a free speech one. Which is a fairly black-and-white convo.

I don't think you'll get a 'chat', or much of a dialogue. His views are well publicised, he does loads of videos. So I'm not sure anyone will learn anything new.

I certainly don't think he should be no platformed, but personally I'm not that interested, although I'll probably watch it.

I've yet to see a web chat where, at the end, my primary feeling is not one of frustration. And I don't think this one will be any different, but who knows.

Furrytoebean · 09/04/2019 09:52

I hate how whenever I say I don't like Jordan Peterson it's inevitable someone will say that I just don't understand what he's saying, or I haven't heard enough of him.
It puts me in mind of teenage boyfriends insisting that I read 'fear and loathing in Las Vegas' again because if I find the part where his friend rapes a teenager and then leaves her in the desert upsetting it's because I'm just not getting it.

I've listened to Peterson, I've heard the words coming out of his own mouth and I still think what's he's saying is crap.
It's all very basic self help, 'look after yourself', 'take responsibility for your own thoughts and actions'. mixed with long winded psychobabble .
He talks like he is a man of complete reason, but since when has Yung been about reason?
He is unable to see himself at all, he has no self awareness of the reaching in his own arguments but is first to accuse others of it.

His arguments are an exact mirror image of the feminist one, at first glance it may appear the same but actually it's all the other way around.
For example, the feminist analysis of fairytales is that they are born out of society, that the archetypes within them are produced by the culture of the time they reflect the values of that place and time.

Whereas Peterson's analysis is that they are innate within humans, that those archetypes are within each of us, as part of us. They are natural and not born out of nurture or the context of the time.

The idea that the world is just the way it is because that's the natural order of things is really harmful to women. It's literally anti- feminism.

Yes he may say some very basic 'pull your socks up', 'tidy your room', 'don't wank over porn' but please, we can do better than Peterson for a web chat.

Needmoresleep · 09/04/2019 10:01

I am seeing some parallels with the Heritage Foundation. They must have disagreed with an awful lot that Posie et al stand for yet still gave them a platform. I assume this was only after some heated debate.

The platform and the fact some useful people listened yielded some thoughtful articles. Yes there was controversy but in some ways the publicity and the ensuing debate was not a bad thing.

GC arguments are biological/scientific. Yes in the US the right wing have picked up the baton and in the UK much of the heavy lifting has been done by centre left feminists, albeit supported by centre right media.

One thing we have surely learn is that no debate and no platforming does not work. It needs to stop. So lets invite him, and lets ask some bloody good questions.

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 10:11

Well, obviously, given that I'm not down with refusing to talk to anyone, MNHQ can invite anyone, and people are free to engage. My own feelings on Peterson are that he talks a good game on free speech and pronouns, and I can see why the motivational pull your socks up stuff is useful to feckless young men.

But this, from deepwatersolo is a good summary - I once hear him say that free speech is important, because it allows you to air all that comes to your mind, a lot may be bullshit, but in dialogue with others you weed out the crap and develop your argument. I like what he said then, but I have never seen it in his debates. It is all about winning, shutting down the other side via straw-men, without even hearing what the other side has to say.

He's the PT Barnum of academia. He puts on a great show, but ultimately the content is as empty and ephemeral as an easily forgotten rendition of 'This is me'.

By all means, invite him, and those who wish to engage him to watch him throw out the razzle dazzle can. I shall probably be buffing the dead skin off my feet at the time, but I wish you all well.

thebluearsefly · 09/04/2019 10:12

I can’t believe some people are framing Peterson as “point scoring” in the Cathy Newman interview. I think he was extremely measured and polite considering the frankly embarrassing, aggressive and badly researched onslaught from Cathy.

Furrytoebean · 09/04/2019 10:13

It's not no-platforming.
No one is saying he's not allowed to talk or he should be banned from the site. People who share his views aren't being silenced here or threatened.

Not inviting someone for a webchat isn't the same thing as 'no debate', the debate is still happening.

I actually think a webchat would be less of a debate, I've seen him debate, he'll just answer the questions he has answers to and frame the conversation into whatever he likes.
As usual the feminist voice won't be heard because a big male foghorn will be droning over the top of it.

thebluearsefly · 09/04/2019 10:13

And for those insisting on no platforming here. Give over!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.