Owen Jones

[JoanWilliams75]

How can he be so obtuse? I can only assume he has never spent time with children?

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1115021165398056960

I think we should condemn violence unequivocally. I'm horrified at this attack on Owen Jones. We can't know for certain, but I think he's probably right that this was a premeditated attack by a right wing group. He has long been targeted by far right bullies.

It would also be wonderful to see people condemn, for example, the attacks on Maria MacLachlan, Helen Steel and Julie Bindel. There were some people who tried to claim that Maria provoked the attackers. OJ was one of them. I hope all of us can rise above that kind of victim-blaming.

So he was able to tell they were men without asking what they identified as, was he?

It's amazing how "you can't tell someone's gender by looking at them" evaporates when men decide it's an inconvenient assertion for them.

Much as i dislike OJ i wish him a speedy recovery. Such a horrible experience of male violence, I wouldnt wish that on anyone.

I condemn all violence and him being beaten up is completely unacceptable.

What concerns me, however, is how the hard left condone violence from antifa because they seem to see that violence a 'righteous violence.'

That makes no sense to me. All violence, against anyone, is always bad.

All violence, against anyone, is always bad.

Yes. I'm pretty alarmed at the tendence among left wingers to accept milkshake-throwing, even celebrate it - it's one step away from punching. People I know well, who ought to know better, are crossing the line into advocating violence and it terrifies me.

Yes. I'm pretty alarmed at the tendence among left wingers to accept milkshake-throwing, even celebrate it - it's one step away from punching. People I know well, who ought to know better, are crossing the line into advocating violence and it terrifies me.

I totally agree Scrimshaw and have had the same experience of otherwise good people I know laughing at the milkshake thing and shrugging their shoulders about it. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't like milkshake to be thrown on them. It's an aggressive act however silly it seems because it's milkshake. I think once we get into physical assaults being condoned against people we disagree with we are in dangerous territory as a society and have regressed.

I agree with all the voices condemning violence and sending good wishes to OJ here.

I am struck by the stark contrast between the comments here and the way Owen Jones has commented on violence against women who disagree with his views on their rights.

Absolutely loathe the man, but you can’t go beating people up. Hope he isn’t injured.

London is bristling with cameras, I’m sure they will have got some footage.

I'm pretty alarmed at the tendence among left wingers to accept milkshake-throwing, even celebrate it - it's one step away from punching.

It's that self-satisfied sense of having the moral high-ground that seems to allow it to seem ok. Any knowledge of the history of the left should make it clear this can be a blindspot. I guess many of us just forgot about this tendency, we projected too much onto the right as something that exclusively belongs to them. They are warmongers, we are peaceniks, so how could we be violent.

He's fine.

He was on Sunday Morning Live today talking about the recently banned Philadelphia and VW adverts and the effect that gender stereotyping has on "the poor menz"

Totally agree about throwing anything at political opponents- eggs, milkshakes, paint- it’s a form of attack and should not be accepted let alone celebrated. And public attacks on journalists are particularly sinister.

They are warmongers, we are peaceniks, so how could we be violent.

Yep, I think that's it. Self-righteous blindspot. And I think it's fuelling the far right, amongst other things.

I'm glad Jones is fine, Frangipani. Attacks like this are worrying sign of the current climate.

@Bowlofbabelfish

Wotcha bowl! Missed you. .

Yes. I'm pretty alarmed at the tendence among left wingers to accept milkshake-throwing

In britain now:

Right wing fascists have assassinated one of our few and precious woman MPs.
Right wing fascists are threatening to kill any number of sitting MPs; mainly women.
Right wing fascists regularly attack women, anti racism campaigners and pro EU campaigners in central London.
Right wing fascists have just attacked another journalist.

But........... the milkshakes.

If you're a survivor of abuse anything thrown at you can have a significant effect. And there are people who have vascular conditions that any shock or surprise that raises their blood pressure could kill them (my DF is one). IMO it's all on a spectrum anyway.

Violence is almost always wrong, including in this instance.

Other than that, this is a male on male crime....not sure what women are expected to do about it.

woman19

1. What EverardDigby said.
2. Victim doesn't know it's only milkshake, it could contain acid, concrete, Novichok...
3. Victim could be allergic to milk proteins.
4. If milkshake is OK but murder isn't, where do we draw the line? Do we say that a slap is OK but a punch isn't? Do we say that egging is OK but slapping isn't? Who gets to draw that line?
5. If we condone the milkshaking of powerful men, it becomes much harder to decry men throwing water/tea/coffee/beer over their wives as abusive.

Corollary to (5): if we condone the milkshaking of powerful men, we must condone the milkshaking of powerful women. Do you think that societal approval of dousing female MPs in milkshake will encourage or discourage women from standing for election?

I'm in two minds.

On the one hand, violence is bad, no one should be attacked on the streets, etc. In general terms I condemn this attack.

Other the other hand, when I mentally rewrite the headline of the BBC article I saw about this to "Misogynistic lesbophobe attacked in street" and remember that he's known for prioritising male feelings over female safety... It gets a bit harder to summon up righteous anti-violence sentiment in this specific case.

But obviously position one is of utmost importance, because my feelings aren't more important than anyone else's physical safety either.

How does someone else’s worse violence excuse anyone else woman19 ?

It’s that kind of attitude that is disturbing from the left wing. The idea that their violent tendencies are irrelevant because the other side are evil.

That’s the direct road to Nazi, no steps should be taken down it, however small.

The point is the eroding of the line between peaceful protest and violent attack. Yes, being hit by a milkshake is not as bad as being stabbed to death. It's the thin edge of the same wedge, though.

I'm with Brendan Cox on the topic of milkshakes:

twitter.com/mrbrendancox/status/1130471629732155392?lang=en

"The idea that their violent tendencies are irrelevant because the other side are evil."

This.
The extreme right and the extreme left are different sides of the same coin.
How many times have we heard TRA's (who are probably on the extreme left) describe feminists as extreme right, when in fact feminists are just ordinary people who want to fight for women's rights.

It’s that kind of attitude that is disturbing from the left wing. The idea that their violent tendencies are irrelevant because the other side are evil.

This.
You have to be pretty naive to be unaware of the history of left wing movements and violence.

And there is a kind of responsibility we have to be aware of negative or wrongheaded tendencies in our own groups as well, and condemn them and the thinking that leads to them. Not just externally, but personally.

There is very little chance that my own thinking has been infected by the errors of right wing individualism. But it might have elements of the same thinking that leads to people on the left being ok with violence or totalitarianism, or it might have elements of the thinking that leads to relativism, or the underlying errors of identity politics. In fact it would be odd if these things didn't find their way into my thinking. Therefor it's my responsibility to drag them into the light of my consciousness and expunge them, and the logic that follows from them. And collectively it's our responsibility on the left to do that for the left.

Those on the right have to do that for themselves and the ones with integrity do.

attacking someone because you disagree with their opinions is 100% not OK. I hope the police catch the dick heads that did it and throw the fucking book at them.

I don't want to live in a society where anyone fears physical attack because of the opinions they hold

Something isn't smelling quite right here.

Apparently there was no medical treatment needed at all after this. Which doesn't exactly concur with the reports of him having been so brutally attacked.

LOJ's own comments say the unidentified attackers "threw me on the ground, slamming my head, and kicked me in the skull" and other reports cite blows to the head and being "karate kicked" in the back - all from a group of men who "charged out of the pub with military precision”).

You'd expect at least a check up after a gang beating that severe, just to be safe; and also as evidence, right? But there's not so much as a hastily snapped phone pic.

(NB, the initial Guardian report has now removed the "karate kick to the back" reference, but I didn't screengrab it before refreshing the page.