Deborah Orr

[notwokeup]

Just a shout out for how great Deborah Orr has been on Twitter recently, and how much I admire her.

She was a couple of years above me at uni and I remember seeing her sitting on a desk in the student newspaper office, all big hair and pixie boots, cool as fuck, and obviously a rising star then. (This was the early 80s!)

I'd always admired her writing, but I think she's really stepped up with the GC stuff recently, showing Sally Hines up for the foolish handmaiden she is.

I've given up on tracking Jack's constant oscillations.

Yeah I appreciate her. Have been in the same arguments on Twitter lately.

I also accept her changing her mind re trans issues. I did too. I remember having hour long debates on here defending them but I was blind to the impact on women. Now I know more and use my voice better.

Helen Joyce is my current shero. Her actual job is being targeted and she's not giving an inch but remaining utterly smart and classy.

It shows my age when I dream of bumping into Helen Joyce at an event and somehow she becomes my friend. As does Janice Turner. Once upon a time it would have been someone cool who could invite me to exclusive clubs and introduce me to other famous people. Now I'm only interested in other middle aged women with clever and interesting things to say

Helen Joyce is magnificent.

I have the impression Jack is/has been very troubled but may perhaps be in calmer waters now. She does great work with her cookery writing and I can cut her a lot of slack for that.

Professor Hines is ..... well. I have no words.

The comments on Deborah's article show how much has changed too. I wonder how many commenter have changed their view too.

Just caught up with Sally Hines, really how can someone be an academic with an inability to argue a coherent position and agree on terms of reference? It's quite incredible. She is literally incredible. I pity her students, how are they meant to learn anything from her?

Heard Sally Hines on woman’s hour. Doesn’t come across as the sharpest tool in the box.

She's peak transed in the last couple of days and is fabulous - robust but always logical, factual & pretty polite (for Twitter).

I think it's pretty brave to say "I was wrong" when you know the abuse you'll get.

When your long-term allies are turning, that's a brilliant sign. (I hope)

Heard Sally Hines on woman’s hour. Doesn’t come across as the sharpest tool in the box.

Professor Hines was interviewed alongside Prof. Kathleen Stock.
Link & transcript in thread
(Professor Hines did not come across at all well)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427931-Prof-Stock-on-Womans-Hour-today

I’ve been reading Deborah Orr on Twitter a lot recently, and I think it is really important that she is public about changing her mind. It gives other a potential ladder to climb down if she goes first. Isn’t God meant to rejoice more over a repentant sinner? Been a while since my convent school days and I never was a believer.

That’s not to undermine the hard work of all the other great women who’ve been campaigning on this for so long, and the respect I have for them.

I saw a TRA try to target “let clothes be clothes” on Twitter for following Deborah, and then when letclothesbe refused to be bullied, tagged lettoybetoys to try to bully letclothesbe. The responses from letclothesbe were nothing short of magnificent.

Why they think that campaigns to break down gender as applied to clothes and toys would support their regressive views and sexist stereotypes is beyond me.

Quite right, Slippery: "I say to you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

Good on Deborah.

Has Deborah Orr actually said that she no longer stands by that article?

Give me strength - she’s thought about her views and reconsidered. Publicly. How exactly are we going to win this without people changing their minds?

Yes it's interesting how she says it's the TRAs demanding complete capitulation that made her change her mind.

I've just seen Jenny Jones of the Greens tweeting in support of Debbie Hayden, Helen Joyce and Harry the Owl as well. I couldn't have foreseen that happening this time last year so it's good when any high profile person publicly speaks up.

Give me strength - she’s thought about her views and reconsidered. Publicly. How exactly are we going to win this without people changing their minds?

This. I can't think of anything more counterproductive than others, who want to follow Orr's path, seeing her being met with disdain for not having seen the light earlier. Just about all of us, with very few far-sighted exceptions, could have seen the light earlier.

Janice Turner and Hadley Freeman are the women journalists that I admire.

Actually I think Janice Turner did switch "sides". Nothing wrong with it though. People have been debating this for decades. Many people posting here have only revevaluated their thoughts on it over the last couple years.

I've got nothing but sympathy for Jack. She strikes me as scared to be hibest as she's in that circle now and can't get out.

Good point. We criticise gender identity ideology for not allowing people a way out. If we're going to be consistent, surely we should be welcoming with open arms anyone who wants to escape from it.

Agree with Floisme and Nauticant

Zanahoria. Yes she has. On twitter.

I think this has been coming a while. When I first started looking at this issue orr seemed to be someone who was trying to walk a middle road. Even though some trans people are also trying to find a middle path, middle paths are obviously not allowed according to most trans activists. She said that Paris Lees saying you are either with us or against us pushed her over.
I really hope she writes something lo g form about this.

I think it is really important that she is public about changing her mind

I agree with this. People should be allowed to change their minds and admit they got something wrong.

Janice Turner.

A tortured childhood is the norm for those such as Emma. In America, parents are pressing for children who “persistently and insistently” identify with a different gender to play in opposite sex sports teams. In Britain, there is a furore about prescribing drugs that temporarily block the onset of puberty to gender-confused children as young as ten. It sounds like meddling medical insanity until you read how postponing dreaded secondary sexual characteristics reduces the horrific suicide rate.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-brutal-choice-change-sex-or-kill-yourself-f8cpstwkvlb

Sorry that was for @ColeHawlins re: changing minds.

I don't think it's just that people should be able to change their minds, it's also that we're not going to win this unless they do.