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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Deborah Orr

91 replies

notwokeup · 27/03/2019 17:48

Just a shout out for how great Deborah Orr has been on Twitter recently, and how much I admire her.

She was a couple of years above me at uni and I remember seeing her sitting on a desk in the student newspaper office, all big hair and pixie boots, cool as fuck, and obviously a rising star then. (This was the early 80s!)

I'd always admired her writing, but I think she's really stepped up with the GC stuff recently, showing Sally Hines up for the foolish handmaiden she is.

OP posts:
terryleather · 27/03/2019 17:50

She is on fire at the moment, fabulous to behold!

RepealTheGRA · 27/03/2019 18:20

Loving Deborah Orr.

Jack Monroe is now being targeted on twitter for the heinous crime of following her!

Deborah Orr
BixBeiderbecke · 27/03/2019 18:33

Yes I think she’s turned a corner on her thinking. It’s interesting to see people on the different stages of the peak trans journey.

R0wantrees · 27/03/2019 18:45

Jack Monroe is now being targeted on twitter for the heinous crime of following her!

I believe Deborah Orr has commented that a factor in her viewpoint changing was witnessing the power of the attempted bullying of women by TRAs.

NotTerfNorCis · 27/03/2019 18:53

Jack Monroe is now being targeted on twitter for the heinous crime of following her!

Can't they see this kind of Stalinism will only peaktrans more people?

Monroe was accused of disloyalty not long back, but I can't remember the details of her crime.

Original poster
notwokeup · 27/03/2019 19:03

I really think it is an ongoing journey for so many people. There are also a few high profile women journalists who have been disappointingly silent on the matter...

OP posts:
teawamutu · 27/03/2019 19:06

I remember Jack Monroe IDing as non binary (I think?) and then seeking to go back to female pronouns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

HollowTalk · 27/03/2019 19:07

I love her and am so glad she's got rid of the burden that was her husband.

ColeHawlins · 27/03/2019 19:09

Meh. She did far too much handmaiden berating of the naughty TERFs. I'm not going to gush in gratitude because she eventually stopped.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/19/feminism-trans-women-female-enough

Original poster
notwokeup · 27/03/2019 19:13

I think the point is that she's moved on from there. As have I. I can remember thinking Julie Bindel was out of order. I don't now. I feel I've learnt and grown.

OP posts:
ColeHawlins · 27/03/2019 19:15

Fine. It's good she stopped the anti-science, anti-woman nonsense.

But I'm not going to lionise any woman who derided us for championing women.

zanahoria · 27/03/2019 19:21

Has she actually had any decent articles on this subject published or is it all on twitter?

Floisme · 27/03/2019 19:21

I think Deborah Orr's journey illustrates the utter stupidity of the trans lobby. She started off as an instinctive ally and (as I said on another thread) all they had to do to maintain her support was show a modicum of respect and sense. If they can't keep women like her onside then they really have lost it.

RepealTheGRA · 27/03/2019 19:29

I think the point is that she's moved on from there. As have I. I can remember thinking Julie Bindel was out of order. I don't now. I feel I've learnt and grown

I used to think lots of the women on here were a bit ‘mean’ and ‘angry’ even after I’d peaked. These days on the rare occasion I come across someone angrier than me, I just assume they know more and I should listen to them. My current stance is most GC people aren’t nearly hardline enough.

ColeHawlins · 27/03/2019 19:32

Janice Turner and Hadley Freeman are the women journalists that I admire.

They've been speaking up right from the start, even when it was arguably dangerous.

They've never used their platform against women. Only for us.

OrchidInTheSun · 27/03/2019 19:34

I started off as an instinctive ally too. I think many of us did. And once the scales fell, they kept on falling. So I'm no longer peak transing but the idiocy of rabid transactivism never fails to disappoint.

JackyHolyoake · 27/03/2019 19:40

ColeHawlins

"Janice Turner and Hadley Freeman are the women journalists that I admire."

See also Julie Bindel and Sheila Jeffreys, both of whom have been writing about this for decades and still do. There are others: Rebecca Reilly-Cooper is another who has been writing for a long time about his. Smile

ColeHawlins · 27/03/2019 19:44

See also Julie Bindel and Sheila Jeffreys, both of whom have been writing about this for decades and still do. There are others: Rebecca Reilly-Cooper is another who has been writing for a long time about his.

Of course. I wasn't deliberately leaving the (fabulous, infatigable) academics-slash-writers out.

Apologies.

I was just thinking more in terms of general broadsheet columnists.

ColeHawlins · 27/03/2019 19:44

Indefatigable, I mean.

terryleather · 27/03/2019 19:48

I'm not bothered where people have come from - I'm happy that they've arrived and are adding to the growing number of GC voices, and many many women started off from a similar position to DO.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 27/03/2019 19:49

I would expect Jack Monroe to unfollow soon enough, they def think TWAW, back when I was on twitter I had some interesting exchanges.

Deborah, happy to see a change in attitude. I do wonder how the hell she could write any of that nonsense linked above

ColeHawlins · 27/03/2019 19:52

and many many women started off from a similar position to DO.

True, but most of them weren't spewing their contempt at us from a privileged media platform.

I'll never forget the shock of being dismissed as bigots by other women.

But this is running off topic. I'm not suggesting shunning DO, it's just that I don't see she's early lavish praise either.

Ribbonsonabox · 27/03/2019 19:54

Love Deborah Orr! She is great on Twitter and I'm glad shes standing her ground after listening to people and drawing her own conclusions...
I've been on a similar journey to her with all this... I think we have all been socialised to consider other peoples feelings and rights (see primarily mens feelings and rights) above our own... and to do anything which is seen as 'nasty' or at least labelled that way, is incredibly difficult...
But I think she does a fine job of saying 'no this is not about trying to control how people live thier lives... it's about trying to control who is allowed in female space..and we have a right to try and protect ourselves... it's not the same thing as phobia or revulsion or lack of acceptance... it's not about nastiness... it's about protecting women from the very real threat of Male violence'

donquixotedelamancha · 27/03/2019 19:56

I remember Jack Monroe IDing as non binary (I think?) and then seeking to go back to female pronouns.

I recall seeing a debate where Jack Munroe screamed at the other party for discussing gender dysphoria. At that time she said she had GD and was non-binary. I had her down as full blown TRA nutter.

I'm not really surprised if even the most woke of those with actual GD and some sort of understanding of reality are getting pretty frustrated by the Sally Hines and Rachel McKinnons of the world insisting that it's all subjective and there never was such a thing as a woman anyway.

We get pissed off at what they are doing to women's rights but they are just as bad for Trans rights.

RepealTheGRA · 27/03/2019 19:58

I think Jack has previously had a trans identity and has also previously been called a terf (and also called others terfs).

I’m not sure what her current stance is. Hiding in the hope it all goes away, probably.

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