Use of the term 'handmaidens'?

[JoanWilliams75]

I really hate it. I especially hate it when GC men use it.

Anyone else?

PS: Approve of unisex diss "pomo-addled"

Freespeecher As far as I'm concerned it's not about someone who voices 'incorrect opinions'. It refers to a woman who - either knowingly or through inexcusable ignorance - tips other women into a big, steaming vat of shit (Maria Miller). As it happens (and I may be wrong so I wouldn't bother checking!) I don't think I've ever used the phrase and there are very few people who I think qualify, but Miller is one of them.

I think that to really make an impact on the wider population of women, feminists who are concerned about the impact of gender self-identification need to stop using some of these very specific terms and abbreviations.

I am thinking of terms such as: woke, pomo, bro, TRA, GC, MTF, FTM, handmaiden, peak-transing, AGP, references to unicorns and misgendering.

In my opinion the use of these terms can confuse people who are new to the issue, act as barriers to understanding and have the unintended negative effect of making this seem like something that is only a social media 'issue' for women who have too much time on their hands.

To communicate effectively about this problem and win support feminists need to speak in a way that is easily comprehensible to women of all ages and backgrounds.

As on old Second Waver, I rather like the term "ingrates."

Im happy to accept any cut up credit cards, closed bank account statements, job resignation letters, surrendered mortgages or car loans, notices of academic withdrawal, surrendered university degrees, returned birth control prescriptions, returned divorce payments, returned pension accounts, returned child support payments, and cancellation notices at DV refuges and rape crisis centres any Pomo-Addled Handmaidens care to hand over, given their utter disgust for Second Wave feminism (or rather, what they've been told about the Second Wave, since none of them have actually read the original source material many have suggested be banned.)

Quislings is also good, though so few know any history, they won't know who Quisling was.

Collaborationists is good, esp, given that postmodernism has some roots in apologia for intellectual collaboration with the Nazis.

Yes, it's not the difference of opinion that earns the epithet - it's the callous disregard for other women, and prioritizing men, especially, but not exclusively, while claiming to be a feminist.

I try and only use helpful shorthand, and handmaiden is limited in that regard, but it's clearly not meant as censure of a mere difference of opinion, it's a name for a woman who does harm to other women - often evidenced by phrases like "I wouldn't mind/I've never felt threatened".

I'd be quite happy if we called them 'profoundly selfish, self serving women', but it's a bit clumsy to keep writing that out.

BickerinBrattle

Quislings is also good, though so few know any history, they won't know who Quisling was.

Before I got to your comment here, I was going to post that I rather like 'Quislings' in this context.

Fair point. The trouble is that 'a woman I disagree with' goes nowhere near capturing my feelings about someone like Maria Miller.

True, but 'handmaiden' would trivialise her role in the damage being done to women. More of an Aunt Lydia perhaps...

It's handMAID! MAID! Ffs

Atwood’s novel is The Handmaid’s Tale but in this context, handmaiden is short for ‘Handmaiden of the Patriarchy’ and isn’t an Atwood reference.

Two previous threads on the topic:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3371930-handmaidens?pg=1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3285240-Handmaidens

What I don’t like is being told that it’s anti feminist of me not to agree with all other women whatever they say or do because choice.

Yes ... of course most of us on FWR are, according to Maria Miller, merely 'purporting to be feminists'.

Atwood’s novel is The Handmaid’s Tale but in this context, handmaiden is short for ‘Handmaiden of the Patriarchy’ and isn’t an Atwood reference.

This.

I actually don't have a problem with handmaid/handmaiden because it usually conveys exactly what it's meant to.

I'm here, helping, seeing my MP, speaking up locally, getting called names online and at risk of losing a major client and I'm doing that in spite of my intense dislike for terms like "handmaiden", "peak trans" etc as used on here.

I don't expect or frankly need any of you to agree, approve of my views on this or care what I think and I have come to realise that this cuts both ways and we aren't here to be nice. I won't police your tone and I won't pretend that "peak trans" is language that fits in ambit of the fight I want to have.

I think peak trans will be read as aggression to trans people and dislike of trans people by the majority of the population. That's my minority opinion and I don't give a shit whether the person saying it intended it that way or whether they are part of a group that has decided it somehow shouldn't be read as that by a trans person.

I'll still go and see my MP and I won't police your tone but I won't pretend I think it's useful or necessary to use these terms.

I think I've grown a backbone as a direct result of being on this board.

I find pomo very difficult. When I was a teenager studying Sociology, postmodernism summed up me perfectly. I like to pick and choose from different belief systems / thought processes. Now apparently it means controlling other people’s thoughts / hating anyone who disagrees.

Not going to change myself because terms change, but I’m going to hold onto my decidedly old-fashioned understanding and beliefs.

I like the term 'faux-feminist' which I've seen some people use

Perhaps, spokk, the big problem with postmodernism is when the concept of being able 'pick and choose from different belief systems / thought processes. ' extends to impinge on matters of physical reality, science? The idea that some subjective belief should outweigh (or even, frankly, be compared with) objective reality is problematic.

I jave no problem with science, but I fo believe that things which can’t be proven can be mixed.
Like I have CofE with a bit of Quakerism with a bit of Paganism. Other people may disagree with me, as is their right, but don’t come at me for my beliefs.

Yes, if we're going to go with Atwood, Maria Miller is surely an Aunt rather than a Handmaid.

It's not a term I want to use about women who simply emphasise different aspects of feminism (e.g. a right wing feminist who sees it as being about equality of opportunity and downplays the issue of whether the starting playing field is level).

But it is a term I will use about women who wilfully push other women under the bus for male brownie points. The sort who is effectively saying "Don't do it to me, do it to Julia..." (Quisling is good...)

Aunt Lydia's, or Aunt is a better descriptor.

Amoregentlemanlikemanner

I'm with you on this. I dislike the term a lot.

Quislings is also good, though so few know any history, they won't know who Quisling was

Such arrogance there.

I was dead excited when I found out the prigin of the term in my thirties. Not so much arrogance, I think. Considering nowadays we have young adults wandering around hsvibg no idea what the USSR was.

I used to use the term 'handmaiden' but not use 'ally'. However, more accurate terms would be 'Quisling' and 'collaborator'.

Now not not. Sheesh. I need a coffee.