Use of the term 'handmaidens'?

[JoanWilliams75]

I really hate it. I especially hate it when GC men use it.

Anyone else?

Vichy feminists would also work; people who don't know who Quisling was do know about Vichy.

Though I'm told its offensive to make historical comparisons between a millennia-old global regime of domination which has involved periods of mass gynocide to a 20th century regime intent on global domination that committed genocide. Even though political scientists agree that one of the hallmarks of the latter is that regime's determination to enforce the former.

I don't use it. I understand that it doesn't refer to Atwood's handmaid's, but as that's the meaning which is famous and refers to women who are enslaved and raped, it doesn't seem useful to me. I tend to think of women who throw other women under the bus as "wives of Gilead." Or as others have said, aunts.

I neither need nor want feminism chat to slow down for me - but I’m already on board. I am not the audience that needs to be engaged or convinced about this issue.

It

I wish I knew what was so difficult about the FWR boards. I’m not the sharpest knife in the box, and i’ve never had any trouble understanding them!

Hmmm... Turkeys voting for Christmas?

Harry the owl visited by police
The ‘aren't women who can’t reproduce women’ argument
Use of the term handmaidens
Joani Walsh was at Accenture...

It is difficult to copy from one to another on a phone and those may not be the best examples, but I honestly think that someone coming here for the first time and seeing the thread titles on Feminism chat would be very tempted to click somewhere else instead.

But anyway, my argument is that the language used to describe this issue must be able to live outside the spheres of Mumsnet or Twitter, as that is where hearts and minds need to be won.

my argument is that the language used to describe this issue must be able to live outside the spheres of Mumsnet or Twitter, as that is where hearts and minds need to be won.

And no one has disagreed. But the language of an online message board with specific rules about what may or may not be said on pain of deletion or banning will be very different to the way most of us speak to others offline. I'm struggling to see why that's not clear.

normally people joining a group don't demand that the group changes the way it does things and any idiosyncratic modes of speech it may have

when writing to MPs or discussing with friends and family using jargon would be daft. but this is a community with quite a marked identity. jargon is inevitable.

But surely you don’t expect to know exactly what people are talking about at once on any board? The examples you gave-I’m not sure how you could phrase them any differently..........

I don't like it as I don't like a lot of 'us and them' language. I am a lefty and find the speed at which people will denounce others as splitters etc highly problematic.

That said… I find the 'handmaidens' who support the brocialists' rape apology that goes on on the left pretty hard to stomach and need something to label them with

To be fair, I think some GC discussions can be challenging if you're new to the ideas. I mean look at that first sentence - what's GC? And even if I write 'gender critical' instead, what's that? I lurked for about two years before I started posting.

But I'm sure if I wandered onto the gardening board (is there a gardening board?) I wouldn't understand a word they were saying either and I would have to watch and learn first.

I think there's normally a pretty good mix of voices on here. Some posters are into feminist theory and some aren't. For the most part, I'm in the second camp but there should be room for everyone. And if you are new, there's at least one long running 'break it down for me' thread that's very useful.

I take my feminism very very seriously. But are we really discussing which nasty slur to use against other women?! Really?! Distasteful. And kapo? I mean. Honestly.

“But are we really discussing which nasty slur to use against other women?!“

No. We are discussing a word to describe women who behave like shits towards other women in a very specific way.

I think one major point the OP made that hasn't been picked up on is that she has an issue when men use the term handmaiden.

I agree. Seems pretty wanky woke bloke as the term only applies to women.

But when you're talking to a handmaiden of the patriarchy, there aren't many more appropriate terms.

I don't like it as I don't like a lot of 'us and them' language. I am a lefty and find the speed at which people will denounce others as splitters etc highly problematic.

That said… I find the 'handmaidens' who support the brocialists' rape apology that goes on on the left pretty hard to stomach and need something to label them with

Yes, I think this is probably my position. I don't really use the word, and I don't go out of my way to insult, but I don't really beat myself up over occasionally using nasty words about women who defend and enable the oppression and abuse of other women and girls. It's not necessarily the moral high ground, but it's a minor sin in comparison, so I'll live with the guilt, tbh.

Wrt the comments in the OP about men using it, yes, very different complexion when it comes from a male, however GC he may be, and those that fancy themselves allies would probably do well to reflect on how much they may well be indulging their own misogyny by throwing insults at women.

Yes, it is problematic when men use it as I often feel many women only behave in the ways it is used to criticise, for male validation anyway.

I missed the mention of men using it. I don’t think i’ve ever heard it. Irrationally, i’d probaby leap to defend the woman in that circumstance!

The word I prefer is "traitor to her own sex". No jargon, basic concept. But I don't use any labels when directly engaged as this tends to stifle discussion. I also don't use it in throwaway comments. I reserve it only for women who don't just prioritise the needs of males but who actively agitate against women's rights and attack or seek to silence women's rights campaigners.

I wonder what word the OP prefers to describe a woman who shits all over other women for men.