‘More acceptance’ of S&M needed

[Imnobody4]

talkradio.co.uk/news/more-acceptance-needed-sm-activities-19032230392
My morning isn't starting well. Haven't heard the programme - not sure I could stand it.

It's like DIY bdsm

Which is still BDSM.

Erm, not all of us BDSMers want it to become more mainstream. I think it is a massively bad idea. Young people will repeat what they have seen without understanding the dynamic of ongoing consent at all.

I do get what people mean when they say once we are tied up, we are basically at the physical mercy of the Dom. Yes we are, which is why a sub should never let him or herself be tied up by someone unless they have known them intimately for a very long time. I think it was six months with my ex before I let him.

I had to know that he WOULD stop on my word, and wouldn't betray my trust, which I learned by doing less restrictive stuff with him first.

Being able to trust someone 100% feels amazing. They could in theory do anything they wanted do you. Yet they don't, because they care about you. It means you can trust that person 100% with your mind and body (in my case it feels like that anyway).

So youngsters looking at BDSM porn is dreadful. None of what I have described is.conveyed. None of the trust needed. BDSM passing into the mainstream is bloody corrosive and gives abusers a charter for violence. Unless all the nuance and safety precautions taken in BDSM is also conveyed, then things will go terribly wrong.

Oh, I meant to say, I know people can 100% trust their partners, mind and body, without being tied up. I wasnt meaning to imply that.

Just for me, being tied up makes me feel free. I don't have to think, just feel. Someone else has taken over the reins and I don't have to make decisions or be "on the ball". I can mentally relax and turn off all thought. As I am the polar opposite in real.life, it feels like bliss to me.

I am not advocating it, just saying why some of us do it. Not because we are mentally unwell or otherwise vulnerable.

I didn't say all BDSM practitioners want it to be mainstream. My point was that there are plenty of groups, often driven by consumer culture, perhaps driven by outright misogyny, NOT connected to the "community " wh seem to want it in the mainstream. It IS increasingly in the mainstream. It's not all about you and what you like to do in bed, despite the fact that several posters seem to want to make it so.

I do actually think it's unhelpful to say people who like to be submissive in bed are mentally unwell, but I think it's disingenuous not to consider that our sexual preferences are not formed in a vacuum.

Puppy play within the BDSM community, at least as I understand it, is a (mostly) non-sexual role play on the whole. It's about becoming a 'character' that is care-free and allowing yourself to be silly. There can be humiliation or 'training' but not always. A lot of people enjoy being cared for and having all their needs met or receiving lots of attention or reward, for doing something very basic. And some people like to give that reward and attention.
Yes of course if I am tied up and my Dominant decides not to follow the rules I will not have control. In this scenario he would not be a Dom IME, he would be an abuser. Very cliche but I have written agreements he has no access to also. Your partner could stab you whilst you sleep. Your average man can overpower your average woman and so there can always be a risk of abuse or rape in relationships, but you fall asleep beside your partner because you trust them not to do this. I trust my Dom in the same way.
And like Apocalypse says, if you practice safely and by what the community follows, you don't meet a stranger online and consent to them fully binding you hours, days or even weeks later. It should be built up very very slowly and when it comes to physicality's, that should also be a slow process, so perhaps you will wear cuffs but not have them attached to anything, or be bound for seconds and released and it can be built up to whatever and proceed at whatever pace both parties agree is comfortable. Or it's something you don't do at all, no physical action is compulsory.

I've had this thread on my mind and I have to admit that now I know how darkside bondage actually is - because its intention and purpose is allowing yourself to be rendered completely powerless so that you could be abused, abandoned or killed - but somehow trusting that your partner won't.

It really is the stuff of nightmares and is way more dark and perverted than watersports. At least with watersports you are just being unhygienic and disgusting, but with bondage you are getting off on someone having power of life or death over you.

It creeps me the fuck out.

Just putting that out there. It is deeply perverse.

I agree that it has become this very sexualised, fashionable thing within the mainstream, adverts, music videos etc. Most people (I think) within the sane community shake their heads at this. The stereotypical image of a 'dominatrix' seems to be particularly popular. I don't even think 50 shades can take full responsibility for this though as I'm pretty sure it started before all that hype.
The reason people are making personal references is that those of us on this thread practice BDSM as safely and thoroughly thought out as we can. We follow the guidelines and take them very seriously. When asked questions about specific things it's easier to use a personal example to explain how we (and others) view them.

Also I am skeptical about this notion that the 'sub' is the one who is actually in control. The way the sub mitigates the total control they are giving someone else over themselves, is to have endless meetings, admin, strategy discussions - process. But it still comes down to trust because the dom could still be playing along, making all the right noises and nodding to win that trust, then ignore it all when it comes down to it. All that bureaucracy is to mitigate a very dangerous situation.

I'm sorry WeRiseUp I don't mean this to sound offensive but I can't quite work out whether you are genuinely shocked or are being deliberately disingenuous so you can once again let us know how disgusting and repulsive we are? What did you think bondage was?

What did you think bondage was?

I thought that you would be able to free yourself and it would be more symbolic - perhaps tactile or some such thing.

The fact that it really is about absolute relinquishment of personal power and freedom to someone else, otherwise it 'isn't bondage'... I think I was still in fluffy kitten land about it up until then and thought B was the lightest bit of BDSM.

disgusting and repulsive we are

I think watersports is disgusting and repulsive but would discribe bondage as creepy and disturbing.

But I don't think you are disgusting or repulsive.

Puppy play within the BDSM community, at least as I understand it, is a (mostly) non-sexual role play on the whole.

It's not non sexual.

Again putting a butt plug in the shape of a tail up your anus is not a non sexual thing to do. This is a very common practise in pup play and it's practically mainstream.

Go to any gay pride parade and you will see men with these tails on in public, and not just one or two.

I thought that you would be able to free yourself and it would be more symbolic - perhaps tactile or some such thing.
Ok apologies I see what you mean. There are types of bondage that don't leave you physically restrained, like breast bondage which probably do have more to do with that. Or having your feet tied together but your hands free could perhaps be seen as symbolic since you can untie or unclip yourself fairly easily, but commonly the term means literally restrained and completely see how this could be terrifying to someone.

I think in the gay scene it was/is sexual. In BDSM I'm sure there are people who incorporate it into their sex lives, but it's more common for their to be no sex involved at all. It is about mentality.
If butt plugs are used I'd agree there was sexuality involved, but it's also common to have a tail on a belt.

So what defines a bdsm relationship if it can involve no pain, bondage or even sex

Consensual power exchange. I have a sub friend whose D/s relationship is incredibly deep, personally enriching, and long lasting, and involves none of those things.

The reason why I'm going on about pup play is not because I'm particularly interested in pup play, but it's the sleight of hand and the gaslighting.
We have eyes, we can see it's a sexual practise.

Ah so pup play is sexual if it's in the gay scene and then it's somehow not BDSM where it's not sexual.
Got ya

Consensual power exchange. I have a sub friend whose D/s relationship is incredibly deep, personally enriching, and long lasting, and involves none of those things.

So how do these power exchanges take place?

It's like DIY bdsm

Which is still BDSM

Yep.

And qualified tradespeople are compelled to have safety training, and are more than happy to speak out about the dangers of DIY.

They don’t minimise the risks by saying ‘actually, gas fitting/electrics isn’t at all dangerous if you are doing it right’ they say, it’s really fucking dangerous, so leave it to professionals’

We have eyes, we can see it's a sexual practise.
You do not see what goes on behind my closed door....
Perhaps it has been portrayed this way in mainstream and like I say I agree it is sexualised amongst some in the gay community. That doesn't mean people practicing BDSM in their every day lives, who incorporate something like puppy play do so with sex involved. I have been in the pup play BDSM scene and I know first hand and from research that it is not commonly the case.

Also this is not an attempt to minimise, gaslight, manipulate etc. I was very clear when I said I was using it as an example as to why the actual definitions of BDSM can mean something other than S&M or B/D.
I didn't say "oh BDSM is really just a bunch of people dressed up like puppies, there is nothing to worry about."

I agree it is sexualised amongst some in the gay community. That doesn't mean people practicing BDSM in their every day lives, who incorporate something like puppy play do so with sex involved.

So for some people pup play isn't sexualised but pup play is HUGE in the gay community where it's definitely sexualised and definitely BDSM and they ARE incorporating it into their everyday lives.
And this isn't a fringe group, it's really really common.

I have a lot of experience with BDSM in the gay community, both first hand and as a sexual health worker.

You can't discount something because it's happening in the gay community and not what you have decided is the real BDSM community.

It was a poster on this thread who said they like bondage because it sets off their fight or flight instinct.

Well that is called the survival instinct. It is what your body does when your brain tells it you are facing something or someone life threatening.

That is dark and disturbing. It is dark and disturbing regardless of whether or not it is sexual.

You can't discount something because it's happening in the gay community and not what you have decided is the real BDSM community.
I'm not. What I'm saying is that not every practise or aspect in BDSM is sexual and that the actual initials 'BDSM' do not have to involve each of those aspects. I've met hundreds of practitioners who do not include sex in their BDSM practices and out of those, pup play is one of the things that stands out for being one of the least about sexual interaction. Of course there are people who will incorporate sex into it.