‘More acceptance’ of S&M needed

[Imnobody4]

talkradio.co.uk/news/more-acceptance-needed-sm-activities-19032230392
My morning isn't starting well. Haven't heard the programme - not sure I could stand it.

Yes. Of my friends I would say are 'perverts' I would not confine them to this description any more than I would by saying they are a 'teacher' or a 'saggitarius'. Some of their sexual practices make me think 'ugh gross' and feel uncomfortable, but that is not the totality of who they are.

Pimps not pumps......my fault for googling plimsols!

I think it's more that they think they are more likely to get away with it.

And this is the crux of the matter. Fuckers.

I think it's more that they think they are more likely to get away with it

That may be the case. Which is incredibly depressing. Because that means they think women won't be believed if they report it. So then the question is why? Which comes back to police, judges and even juries, not understanding that enjoying things consensually doesn't mean you enjoy them non consensually.

It is odd. Everyone can see that a woman having consensual sex doesn't mean that sex cannot be forced upon her.

I wonder why it differs when it comes to non-standard sexual activities?

If the answer was never to do these activities, so the police always knew it was assault, then we could argue that if no-one had sex, rapists couldn't hide behind the "she consented" argument. Yet noone does propose that as it would be unfair. Why the leap to condemn non standard things that rapists hide behind then?

I wonder if masochism should be recognised and treated as a mental disorder in the same way other self harming behaviours are.

I actually think Dom's/sadists are just taking advantage of someone's mental illness/dysfunction and that that is wrong. In fact there is no sadism that is positive to me; you enjoy hurting, dominating and controlling people (whether they apparently want it is besides the point). How can anyone truly decent or well adjusted be like that.

Yossarian22 Do not equate BDSM with paedophilia. Ever. One is between two consenting adults. The other is child abuse and rape.

There is no comparison. Have a bit of thought for God's sake.

I wonder if masochism should be recognised and treated as a mental disorder in the same way other self harming behaviours are

I don't think so. Because masochists aren't doing it to punish themselves. More Because what is done to them feels nice. Sounds weird but it is true.

Plus the fact, I enjoy bits of it and I am not mentally ill.....my former colleagues in psychiatry would soon tell me, I assure you 😀

Apocalypse I replaced the term to demonstrate how people try and excuse perversions. Read the post again.

there is no sadism that is positive to me; you enjoy hurting, dominating and controlling people (whether they apparently want it is besides the point). How can anyone truly decent or well adjusted be like that

Well if that was always the case, then you would obviously be right.

Mostly though, Doms don't enjoy causing pain. They do enjoy controlling the Subs response and being in charge of her pleasure. If a Dom thinks the sub is in pain, he should immediately stop. If she says she is in pain, he should stop.

Being in charge of someone else's sexual pleasure is a massive turn on. THAT is why they do it.

Men who dominate for any other reason are not into BDSM. They are into violence against women and are abusive bastards.

Apocalypse I replaced the term to demonstrate how people try and excuse perversions. Read the post again

You are classing BDSM as a perversion in the same category as paedophilia. If you had used cross dressing, leather fetishes, humiliation fetishes then they are on a par.

Even to make a point, BDSM shouldn't be compared to paedophilia. They are not equivalent perversions.

I understood the point you were trying to make. I am furious at the example you used to make it.

Real life beckons so thank you for an interesting conversation

If the answer was never to do these activities, so the police always knew it was assault

As you know and I thought you were broadly in favour of, I'm entirely comfortable with that presumption. Go ahead and do it, but don't expect a get out. The onus then falls on the "Dominant" not to do something that the "Sub" isn't happy with and might report as assault. Or kill her "accidentally".

Where do you see the Lock case in all this? Do you see it as overruling R v Brown?

Strictly speaking, not over ruling, because obv it’s a lower court, but showing a change in attitude in the courts that leads to a softening of attitudes legallyto BDSM?

More Because what is done to them feels nice. Sounds weird but it is true.

Yes but cutting feels nice to people who cut themselves. Denying yourself food feels rewarding to anorexics. Drugs feel nice to drug addicts.

No, I’m saying people with perversions try and frame them into something more palatable to gain acceptance into the mainstream. I couldn’t care less whether the perversions are equivalent or not, when the tactics used to gain acceptance are the same.

I really need to learn when to stop but I just had to say that as a pp mentioned it is not about policing language, it's about having some sort of human compassion once it is past the point of someone explaining why something could be very damaging.
The people involved in my rape where not into BDSM and they didn't pretend to be. The same circle of people they came from where once close friends and the very people who convinced me I was a pervert and shunned me for it. In the same way telling someone they are ugly does, this led me to believe I was just that. I didn't report the rape because I truly thought I was a disgusting dysfunctional pervert and that someone whom society viewed as lowly as me didn't count enough to be cared about or for. I believed the reason I was raped was because I was a pervert. I was convinced after being told continually that I was, everyone else would see it that way too. Ultimately it was my choice not to report, but had I not been called these things I believe I would have had the courage and self-worth to report it.
People have expressed distaste for the term 'vanilla.' I have tried my best to change from saying that, to instead saying 'non-BDSM practitioners.' If I had continued to say "accept the term vanilla, you are a vanilla, own being vanilla, several celebrity's have and it's purely stating a fact," I have a feeling that would not be considered ok.

*Well if that was always the case, then you would obviously be right.

Mostly though, Doms don't enjoy causing pain. They do enjoy controlling the Subs response and being in charge of her pleasure. If a Dom thinks the sub is in pain, he should immediately stop. If she says she is in pain, he should stop.

Being in charge of someone else's sexual pleasure is a massive turn on. THAT is why they do it."

Funny how they choose to do so with people who enjoy being dominated, controlled and hurt (are you seriously saying there's never any actual pain felt, even if the person enjoys it?) rather than with people whose pleasure doesn't involve those elements.

(You can 'in charge' of someone's pleasure without being in a BDSM setup).

So they don't enjoy dominating and controlling, but then you go on to explain that they do enjoy dominating and controlling, but only because it's hot. Righty-ho.

And sadomasochism never has anything to do with pain? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

People who have not been brutalised to some extent are simply not willing to simulate abuse - it is abhorrent to any well-adjusted person. A man that can experience sexual arousal or even avoid disgust while pretending to be an abuser, especially to someone he claims to love and care about, is dangerous.

I absolutely see masochism as a form of self harm. Punishing yourself isn't the only reason someone might engage in self harm. Apparently cutting yourself also produces endorphins and can feel good and release tension. It's still not healthy behaviour even if it feels good. I do not class masochism as immoral at all. I believe that ideally masochists should seek help, but if they don't want to I don't care as long as they don't go around telling young people how normal it is.

Sadism on the other hand is unacceptable and I hold sadists in complete contempt. Whatever issues they have they should find another way of dealing with it.

I wonder why it differs when it comes to non-standard sexual activities?

Even just saying ‘non-standard’ is an attempt to normalise or minimise the harm of BDSM. It’s abuse, whether someone ‘consents’ or not. The reason people have such strong reactions to it is because we recognise that there should be limits to what we legally and morally allow people to ‘consent’ to. Pain and degradation aren’t things people generally consent to without being mentally unwell or extremely vulnerable.

agirlhasnonameX I totally agree with you. You are not a pervert at all. Just honest about what floats your boat sexually. It isnt perverted to do anything you like between two consenting adults. As soon as consent is breached, it is a criminal offence.

It was not your fault. At all.

agirlhasnonameX

I don’t see people continuing to use the word pervert. People are saying peversions, perverted... rather than calling a person something, it’s the acts being referred to. Part of the problem with BDSM is you cannot control how others view you if you engage in it, and you may be judged harshly, whether that’s fair or not. Women are judged harshly whether they engage in that or not, and that’s why most rapes go unreported- shame and fear of not being believed. I think a lot of women can identify with that. So fair enough not wanting to be called a name, but the behaviour itself is, in my view and that of others, perverted and abusive behaviour.

I know a fella who is a right perv and although he isn't part of any BDSM community he would probably be up for anything (yes, he is a Catholic). He had a girlfriend that asked him to hit her during sex, etc and it all escalated and she started asking him to tell her that he was going to kill her. At one point he stopped and asked "what are we re-enacting here?" and then truth came out that she'd be so badly and frequently abused by her uncle since she was a kid, she had to have hysterectomy as a teenager.

Most blokes would have sensed something was up before it got to that stage.