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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DM - The true toll of porn: Girls who hate their bodies and young men who can't perform in relationships - by a GP who's seen the harm it does to teens

67 replies

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 08:12

Interesting article. (Sorry if there's already a thread!)

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6831573/The-true-toll-porn-Pretty-girls-hate-bodies-young-men-perform.html

Excerpt:

For many of the women and girls I see (whether they watch porn or not, many of my patients are affected by their partner’s porn habits) this can create wholly unrealistic expectations of them when it comes to sex.

When the Pill was introduced in the Sixties, one of the things it did was emancipate women — they could finally have sex just for pleasure. They discovered how to enjoy themselves by exploring their bodies with partners and, over time, questions about sex were discussed by the agony aunts in magazines.

But porn is staged and choreographed. It doesn’t represent the reality of sex, where, when you change positions, you might get cramp or lie on your partner’s hair by mistake.

Porn isn’t about intimacy and love between couples. It’s a performance. And while children may understand that when they see James Bond or a Marvel superhero on screen, they can’t be like them, when they see porn on screen, they think that because they have the relevant body parts, they can!

Ironically enough, I’m not anti-porn. In a healthy, grown-up relationship or sex-life it has its place and women should have as much access to it as men. But porn is largely shot to appeal to men. It’s very visual, unromantic, unsensual and not always the kind of sex women want at all.

More recently, the #Metoo movement has helped many women to speak out about sexual wrongs. But from what I see daily in my practice, younger women are more disempowered than ever.

High-profile campaigns are all very well, but in reality what I hear from my young patients is that they feel unable to say no to changing their bodies to please men, or to performing certain sexual acts. Many feel they can’t say: ‘I don’t want that’, ‘I don’t like that’, or even ‘stop’.

But does love no longer come into it? It’s difficult to answer. For while we focus on the practicalities of sex — contraception and sexually transmitted disease, and knowledge of both is vital — we are forgetting to teach children about the emotional impact of a sexual relationship.

There is a huge discrepancy between appearances and reality. Young people today may appear extremely sophisticated sexually, but I find many are confused about their own bodies.

The selfie generation have become obsessed with what their body looks like — they see it as an object, as opposed to something wonderful which can run, jump, think, and yes, have sex. Inside, though, they are the same awkward and uncertain teenagers they have always been — hesitant, learning about themselves and their bodies and where they fit in the world. It’s a very different world to the one their parents inhabited, so for once, when a child says: ‘You don’t understand’ they might have a point.

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JessicaWakefieldSVH · 21/03/2019 11:48

I saw this, not the first GP to have said something. That case of that poor 16 year old girl who was left with a colostomy bag after her porn obsessed boyfriend persuaded her to agree to group anal, is an example of what porn has led to.

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 21/03/2019 12:10

I've slept with a few guys in their early-mid twenties over the past few years. I've found a recurring pattern of porno talk and behaviour during sex, where rather than being present in the moment it felt more like they were acting out things they had seen (and badly!). This included me being slapped very hard across the face, the inevitable expectation of anal, having my nipples chomped and when telling them it's not doing it for me, them continuing anyway and telling me 'yes, that's what women like' because the bible of pornhub had told them so. They seemed to see sex only through an S&M lens, so after assuming I was a masochist on account of being female, when I objected to what they were doing they asked me if I was a sadist instead. The whole exchange was abusive, with lots of degrading comments about women. They were utterly confounded when I stood up to them, so I imagine the younger girls they normally sleep with don't feel confident enough to, or think that acting out male violent porno fantasies is what sex is. Maybe I got unlucky, but there seem to be a lot of these types out there.

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 12:18

That case of that poor 16 year old girl who was left with a colostomy bag after her porn obsessed boyfriend persuaded her to agree to group anal, is an example of what porn has led to.
I remember that being discussed. Absolutely stomach-churning. A thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3481254-horrendous-consequence-of-current-porn-trends

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise I am so sorry to hear about your experiences. Glad you had the confidence to stand up for yourself, but that's some really appalling treatment you endured. It's so horrible that abuse is being normalized by porn. Flowers

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buzzbobbly · 21/03/2019 12:22

I am 2/3 of the way through a fascinating series on iplayer this week.

A group of young people looking at porn and the impact it has.
I won't post spoilers, but there is a quite moving scene with one of the group which has led to a real awakening of themselves (for the good).

I really recommend it as a thoughtful review of the issue of porn and young people.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p072n07k/porn-laid-bare

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 21/03/2019 12:28

heresyisthenewblack Thanks, to be honest I just wanted to get laid, didn't know why it had to be so stressful. I think along with the influence of porn, that kind of abuse is a way for some men to take back control. Tools like Tinder are the new way of meeting women, and for every hundred messages a woman gets a man might only get one, so it makes them feel resentful and up spring all the incel theories. If this is normal it makes me furious for younger girls having to deal with it.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 21/03/2019 12:31

This is an excellent article. It makes me feel so ashamed as an adult that we have allowed our children to be targeted in this way and have failed to collectively protect them. The Mail have also covered the harm being done to children with eating disorders:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6833107/Instagram-control-children-bombarded-damaging-eating-disorder-images.html

I have said it for many years that adults have unwittingly allowed (via social media) predators and bad people who under normal circumstances we would keep a million miles away from children to directly access them. There are countless examples of it on this board alone.

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 13:12

I think along with the influence of porn, that kind of abuse is a way for some men to take back control.

That's such an interesting point about control. I really hadn't considered that aspect of it before. It feels like it all comes back to entitlement. I worry for women as a whole, but agree that especially younger women will be most affected. Can we go back to when video stores had the "dirty movies" section in the back, and men would be judged for walking in there?

I have said it for many years that adults have unwittingly allowed (via social media) predators and bad people who under normal circumstances we would keep a million miles away from children to directly access them.

Yes. I feel this era has really unleashed something truly disturbing onto children and we really don't know how to handle tools like social media.

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HelenaDove · 21/03/2019 18:38

Can we go back to when video stores had the "dirty movies" section in the back, and men would be judged for walking in there?

If only. I said the same thing on a thread in Telly Addicts last night.

im so glad im in my forties.

Moanymoaner123 · 21/03/2019 18:50

I'm in my early twenties, and the majority of sex I had in my teens was violent and degrading. I've been left with per men's team damage from violent anal sex (though thankfully not to the extent of that poor girl with the colostomy bag), anal was always expected as the next step after PIV sex. I am so so angry that so much of my sexuality was formed around warped porn ideals. There was no place for real intimacy, it was all performance of something men had seen in porn. I've been bitten so hard it's broken the skin, slapped, hit, held down - the list sadly goes on. It was a revelation to have partners who would perform oral sex on me, the first few people I slept with made me feel disgusted by my own body because they wouldn't do it, saying it was gross. The sex I had been having was almost self harm, I consented and acted enthusiastic even when I was uncomfortable because I didn't want to be seen as frigid or a prude. So saddening that this is the world my daughter is growing up in

BelleSausage · 21/03/2019 18:58

Porn is jus another way for misogyny to be communicated to women and to train a new generation of misogynists.

If anyone has seen Diet Land there is an eye opening sequence where the protagonist sits in an art installation that continually streams the top 100 videos on Pornhub. And she realises that although those women fit the societal standard of beauty they are victims and what are watching is their degradation.

DonaldTwain · 21/03/2019 19:04

I don’t know why we are surprised that men’s views of women are affected by porn. Goebbels understood the power of propaganda and its capacity to assist in persuading one group of people to regard another as less than human. Why do we think we are smarter then people were then?

truthisarevolutionaryact · 21/03/2019 19:04

Moanymoaner123 - it's so important that experiences like yours get heard. And they rarely are - so thank you for sharing them.

It's always disappointing that threads on Mumsnet about porn usually end up with porn advocates celebrating their kinks and fetishes. And the impact like this on young people is ignored (on a parenting website Sad )

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 21/03/2019 19:09

Moanymoaner123

I am so very sorry you had that experience at such a young age. I hope you’re ok?

I met my husband young about 30 years ago and even though both teenagers, sex was, from the beginning loving, respectful and enjoyable for us both. About 10 years ago we separated for a while and I had a few sexual encounters with men in their 20’s, thinking I’d have some fun while I was so unhappy and sad etc It was so obvious these guys had watched a lot of porn, I think they thought they were in a porn movie. It was not violent, but anal was definitely the first thing on their minds- no thanks from me. Nothing about it was respectful or even good sex. It was boring & porn-driven. I was glad for many reasons to reconcile with my DH, not least because I didn’t need to expose myself to what men are now like.

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 21/03/2019 19:32

Moanymoaner123 I'm so f*in angry for you and all the girls facing this. As someone a bit older it was very noticeable the difference between sex with these younger guys and those more my own age, the sheer sense of entitlement, violence as the norm, no consideration for women's pleasure, I'm still fuming over it. Magazines like Cosmo and even the lads mags used to inform about female pleasure, now we get articles telling teenagers bleeding from anal sex is normal. Hope you find a good outlet for the anger you are entitled to over this.

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 19:36

Moanymoaner123
My heart breaks reading the abuse you describe, especially at such a formative age. I'm so sorry you went through that. Thank you for your strength in sharing your story with us here. Flowers

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Ereshkigal · 21/03/2019 19:39

Moany Thanks

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/03/2019 19:41

Is it any wonder that so many teenage girls are identifying as not female Sad

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 21/03/2019 19:52

ItsAllGoingToBeFine I have resigned myself to staying single rather than go through that again, it was horrendous. I can imagine many teenage girls who are a lot less self-assured and face the prospect of the same kind of abusive treatment would rather avoid sexual encounters with the opposite sex altogether by identifying as boys, I probably would too.

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 20:01

The violence in porn disturbs me so much that I can't even read Dworkin's descriptions of it.

How it sexually arousing to inflict pain and real damage onto someone you supposedly care about enough to be intimate with? HOW?!?! It's insane to me.

It is a completely unacceptable state of affairs for young women now to almost expect to be tortured by their sexual partners, just because men want to copy what they've seen inflicted on women online.

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 21/03/2019 20:03

This thread has confirmed my fears for girls and young women today. I am so sorry to hear what you are being put through. I am early thirties and never experienced this violent misogyny disguised as "sex" in my teens/twenties. I am so glad of that.

Is it any wonder teenage girls are trying to escape this?

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 21/03/2019 20:09

heresyisthenewblack My impression is that with some of these lads they're woman haters and porn has played its part in that, with others they think that this is normal sex or even actually what women want, because lot of porn titles tell them so. A sense of male entitlement that porn instils also means they don't ask to find out otherwise.

DonaldTwain · 21/03/2019 20:10

Its a big change. I mean, you could say to young men, with complete truth, that being obsessed with porn makes them shit in bed. Dull, when not dull unpleasant, just shit sexual partners. But the terrible thing is they wouldn’t care. It doesn’t matter that they have no ability to give pleasure; like it doesn’t matter they look awful (these terrible beards they go about with). They don’t have to please. That is women’s job. Their job is to consume; to use and dispose of the object.

hdh747 · 21/03/2019 20:14

I don't even have words for how dismayed this makes me feel.
To those who have experienced this horrendous behaviour. Flowers

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 21/03/2019 20:23

DonaldTwain I did tell them they were shit, and I don't know whether they cared or not but they seemed genuinely baffled, like they'd never even thought about a woman's experience before, it was a revelation to them that women might have certain needs or desires too, needs that their mechanical pornosex weren't very good at fulfilling.

DonaldTwain · 21/03/2019 20:29

Well I guess consumable objects aren’t supposed to have needs and opinions are they?
Ugh. Horrible creatures.