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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DM - The true toll of porn: Girls who hate their bodies and young men who can't perform in relationships - by a GP who's seen the harm it does to teens

67 replies

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 08:12

Interesting article. (Sorry if there's already a thread!)

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6831573/The-true-toll-porn-Pretty-girls-hate-bodies-young-men-perform.html

Excerpt:

For many of the women and girls I see (whether they watch porn or not, many of my patients are affected by their partner’s porn habits) this can create wholly unrealistic expectations of them when it comes to sex.

When the Pill was introduced in the Sixties, one of the things it did was emancipate women — they could finally have sex just for pleasure. They discovered how to enjoy themselves by exploring their bodies with partners and, over time, questions about sex were discussed by the agony aunts in magazines.

But porn is staged and choreographed. It doesn’t represent the reality of sex, where, when you change positions, you might get cramp or lie on your partner’s hair by mistake.

Porn isn’t about intimacy and love between couples. It’s a performance. And while children may understand that when they see James Bond or a Marvel superhero on screen, they can’t be like them, when they see porn on screen, they think that because they have the relevant body parts, they can!

Ironically enough, I’m not anti-porn. In a healthy, grown-up relationship or sex-life it has its place and women should have as much access to it as men. But porn is largely shot to appeal to men. It’s very visual, unromantic, unsensual and not always the kind of sex women want at all.

More recently, the #Metoo movement has helped many women to speak out about sexual wrongs. But from what I see daily in my practice, younger women are more disempowered than ever.

High-profile campaigns are all very well, but in reality what I hear from my young patients is that they feel unable to say no to changing their bodies to please men, or to performing certain sexual acts. Many feel they can’t say: ‘I don’t want that’, ‘I don’t like that’, or even ‘stop’.

But does love no longer come into it? It’s difficult to answer. For while we focus on the practicalities of sex — contraception and sexually transmitted disease, and knowledge of both is vital — we are forgetting to teach children about the emotional impact of a sexual relationship.

There is a huge discrepancy between appearances and reality. Young people today may appear extremely sophisticated sexually, but I find many are confused about their own bodies.

The selfie generation have become obsessed with what their body looks like — they see it as an object, as opposed to something wonderful which can run, jump, think, and yes, have sex. Inside, though, they are the same awkward and uncertain teenagers they have always been — hesitant, learning about themselves and their bodies and where they fit in the world. It’s a very different world to the one their parents inhabited, so for once, when a child says: ‘You don’t understand’ they might have a point.

OP posts:
Lamaha · 22/03/2019 12:00

After I had an abortion, aged 30, that broke my heart (I really wanted children!) because the man involved refused to go along with having a baby, I made a resolution
It has to be about love. He has to love me, and be prepared to face the consequences of a baby if there's an accident. Otherwise, no sex.
Basically, treat the whole thing as if there is no birth control.
The next person and only person I had sex with after that became my husband and we had two children.
So I think it's a good rule. Looking back, I'm ashamed of having had sex with men who did not at least respect me, if not love me. I passed it on to my daughter as a guideline, and she benefited from it. It just isn't good for our mental health to have sex with such disgusting men. They need a kick in the balls, not sex, and porn is only part of the problem.

heresyisthenewblack · 22/03/2019 12:30

Lamaha
Flowers Please don't be ashamed of yourself. You should be very proud what you are teaching your daughter.

OP posts:
abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise · 22/03/2019 13:28

Lamaha Casual sex is fine in principle, but all the sex-positive stuff women are sold doesn't work so well in practice. Casual sex with a male partner usually means that the bloke is in it for his pleasure only, and gives a woman a very dissatisfying experience. When I slept with one of these abusive guys I was asked the question 'do you do this often?' I don't as it happens, but I have answered 'yes, I'm just a massive whore, just a hole, I have a different cock up me every single night, just a cum bucket, does that answer your question as to which virgin or whore box you can put me in - because women aren't allowed to have a fully rounded human personality, are they?'' So f*ing predictable. Women are sold a lie (by male-centred feminism) that casual sex is liberating - I mean it could be, but in reality not so much.

heresyisthenewblack · 22/03/2019 22:28

This video might be relevant to the discussion:

Description includes a quote -
“Once I was a child, and I dreamed of freedom. Now I am an adult and I see what my dreams have come to: pornography. So, while I cannot help my sleeping nightmares, I have given up many waking dreams.[...] I decided that I wanted women to see what I saw. This may be the most ruthless choice I have ever made.[...] in facing the nightmare, I want another generation of women to be able to reclaim the dreams of freedom that pornography has taken from me.”
Andrea Dworkin (1981) 'On the writing of "Pornography: Men Possessing Women"'

OP posts:
hdh747 · 23/03/2019 17:56

I was chatting with a group of female friends recently. The subject of anal sex came up, as it has in the past in this group. Many had tried it and didn't want to repeat it, some were, 'no way', and one woman has always been enthusiastic about it. Interestingly when it came up this time, the woman who had been enthusiastic said, 'Oh, I'm over that now, I eventually realised it was about them not me and I don't like it any more.'
I'm not saying that it's impossible for women to like it, I don't know how many do, this is just one small group of women, but I was so interested that the one enthusiast in our small group suddenly saw it through new eyes - it really felt like she had previously persuaded herself she used to like it. She was also the youngest in the group, if that's in any way relevant.

heresyisthenewblack · 24/03/2019 21:13

This thread from OBJECT is really not for the faint-hearted.
It uses screenshots from search results on PornHub, with titles and images that say these videos depict extreme violence towards women masquerading as just "sex." They've also linked in relevant newspaper articles of men attacking/abusing women.
I found the tweets very upsetting, so don't click if you might be triggered, but OBJECT have done a good job of illustrating the harm porn does to women here:

twitter.com/ObjectUK/status/1109117213217312768

OP posts:
hdh747 · 24/03/2019 21:58

How can this be legal?

heresyisthenewblack · 24/03/2019 22:24

How can this be legal?
I have no fucking clue.

This thread has more discussion on the abhorrent violence against women in pornography, but the researcher couldn't find any evidence of any of the same depicted in porn towards males-who-identify-as-women.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3359384-TWAW-except-when-it-comes-to-violent-porn

OP posts:
Spokk · 25/03/2019 00:24

And yet men will defend themselves after hurting you, repeating the lie that you really wanted to act out what was on the screen, even if it destroyed your body.

stroopwafelgirl · 26/03/2019 00:16

print off. sellotape to all surfaces that might come into contact with teenagers

DpWm · 26/03/2019 07:28

Thanks for this thread haresy

I hate generalising about the sexes, but I think it's a real surprise or wake up call when a woman actually realises that men can want sex with a woman that he does not actually like. As in, he'll like how she looks and see sex with her as a "conquest" but he won't actually give a toss about her, care about her or actually like her.

This is what we see in porn, male centred sex. You don't see in the film whether he's made her a nice cup of tea afterwards or if he's just kicked her out the door and moved onto someone else.

A lot of young women think that a man getting a hard on for you means he likes you. It doesn't!
I learned this the hard way when I was younger, I'd dress provocatively but I wasn't very clever. I've grown up a lot, but I was literally in tears when a these boys/men that I'd shagged just joked about me with their mates and ignored me the next day.

So for anyone wondering "how can he do that?" They do it because they can and it makes them orgasm and that's it.

DpWm · 26/03/2019 07:29

That's great Strop
Grin

DpWm · 26/03/2019 07:33

^ Stroop

Crowdfundingforcake · 26/03/2019 08:14

Lamaha, I'm in my fifties and probably have similar experience to you. First boy I had sex with, it was his first time too, so we did our learning together, and it was a really good way to learn about sex and pleasure. We were both a bit embarrassed at first, but soon got over it Grin.

Also, even though porn was available, it was on video, and most kids only had access to the video player in the main living room, so you're not going to watch porn with Mum and Dad likely to come into the room!

Subsequent relationships/sexual encounters were all with decent men - don't know whether that makes me discerning or lucky. It's certainly given me high expectations of sex i.e. that I want pleasure too.

Porn is so easily and freely available these days, and much of it is violent, abusive, fetishized, and these things are becoming 'normal'. And as usual, it will be up to women to stand up and say NO, I will not be abused, demeaned, physically hurt, because of your wants.

heresyisthenewblack · 26/03/2019 08:28

That picture is brilliant stroopwafelgirl!

Thank you all, for all the brave, honest and insightful posts on this thread. Smile

OP posts:
Spokk · 26/03/2019 10:12

How normalised this has become made me give up hope that anyone would give a s* about what was done to me.

Imnobody4 · 26/03/2019 10:36

I really like this ted talk about what young girls believe about their own sexual pleasure. She uses terms such as 'intimate justice' and 'psychological clitorodectomy' and uses the word 'ethical'
Most girls consider good sex to be when they haven't been hurt or humiliated. A pretty low bar.
go.ted.com/Cy26

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