DM - The true toll of porn: Girls who hate their bodies and young men who can't perform in relationships - by a GP who's seen the harm it does to teens

[heresyisthenewblack]

Interesting article. (Sorry if there's already a thread!)

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6831573/The-true-toll-porn-Pretty-girls-hate-bodies-young-men-perform.html

Excerpt:

For many of the women and girls I see (whether they watch porn or not, many of my patients are affected by their partner’s porn habits) this can create wholly unrealistic expectations of them when it comes to sex.

When the Pill was introduced in the Sixties, one of the things it did was emancipate women — they could finally have sex just for pleasure. They discovered how to enjoy themselves by exploring their bodies with partners and, over time, questions about sex were discussed by the agony aunts in magazines.

But porn is staged and choreographed. It doesn’t represent the reality of sex, where, when you change positions, you might get cramp or lie on your partner’s hair by mistake.

Porn isn’t about intimacy and love between couples. It’s a performance. And while children may understand that when they see James Bond or a Marvel superhero on screen, they can’t be like them, when they see porn on screen, they think that because they have the relevant body parts, they can!

Ironically enough, I’m not anti-porn. In a healthy, grown-up relationship or sex-life it has its place and women should have as much access to it as men. But porn is largely shot to appeal to men. It’s very visual, unromantic, unsensual and not always the kind of sex women want at all.

More recently, the #Metoo movement has helped many women to speak out about sexual wrongs. But from what I see daily in my practice, younger women are more disempowered than ever.

High-profile campaigns are all very well, but in reality what I hear from my young patients is that they feel unable to say no to changing their bodies to please men, or to performing certain sexual acts. Many feel they can’t say: ‘I don’t want that’, ‘I don’t like that’, or even ‘stop’.

But does love no longer come into it? It’s difficult to answer. For while we focus on the practicalities of sex — contraception and sexually transmitted disease, and knowledge of both is vital — we are forgetting to teach children about the emotional impact of a sexual relationship.

There is a huge discrepancy between appearances and reality. Young people today may appear extremely sophisticated sexually, but I find many are confused about their own bodies.

The selfie generation have become obsessed with what their body looks like — they see it as an object, as opposed to something wonderful which can run, jump, think, and yes, have sex. Inside, though, they are the same awkward and uncertain teenagers they have always been — hesitant, learning about themselves and their bodies and where they fit in the world. It’s a very different world to the one their parents inhabited, so for once, when a child says: ‘You don’t understand’ they might have a point.

So dismayed by this. I’m early 20s and here mostly for the feminism boards - although I find that the majority of topics of mn tend to be a feminist awakening anyway when you realise how much shit women are expected to put up with. But my sexual relationships and those of my peers are nothing like what has been described. It is all deeply consensual and our male partners (past and present) have been very much preoccupied with satisfying our needs before their own. I am not saying that this in any way mitigates the horrendous impact porn has had on 21st century sexuality but there are certainly some of us who simply refuse to accept it as the norm.

stroopwafelgirl I'm glad to hear it, gives us some hope. I'm not in the UK at the moment (Western Europe) so I don't know whether that makes a difference or not, but it's been a miserable experience.

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise
I'm going to try something a little weird, and copy some of the phrases you wrote.

some of these lads they're woman haters
others they think that this is normal sex
A sense of male entitlement
they don't ask to find out otherwise.
they'd never even thought about a woman's experience before

That's it, isn't it? They don't think beyond themselves.They don't consider the woman. It's not an act to enjoy together, it's what HE wants.

How it sexually arousing to inflict pain and real damage onto someone you supposedly care about enough to be intimate with?

Because caring about someone is not why they want or choose to be intimate with them? They just want sex.

heresyisthenewblack Yes, and it was very apparent to me that this went beyond their attitudes to sex by other comments they made about women/me. I know with blokes who are just up for 'a bit of fun' you can expect a certain amount of BS, but it went beyond that into abusive territory, both verbally and physically. I'm not saying they're all like that, but it's a very different experience I've had with men my own age.

Unfortunately that has always existed, though it's probably even more common now.

(Plus porn had definitely made thinking degrading violent etc sex is normal, to some extent; much much more common).

Moralitym1n1 When I was younger there were lads who just wanted a shag and avoided you after or behaved like twats etc, but I never experienced the kind of violent sex and degrading verbal abuse I have with the last few guys I slept with in their twenties. It's a completely different attitude, a real hatred of women.

Abuseof

Yes I've agreed with that in the post above yours (perhaps cross posted).

Porn, red pill movement, pick up artist movement, women really getting some economic/political etc power, more liberality about sex leading to what were alternative lifestyle fetishes e.g. s&m, polygamy being brought into mainstream (usually to make money or people wanting to be fashionable and 'cool')... who knows but definitely yes. Mostly porn I think.

(Back on mainstream culture and fashions- ok do think the incredible popularity of fifty shades among women - and those stories are actually about an incredibly unhealthy, essentially abusive relationship - has made a host of men think that that must be what women want and are turned on by is being restrained, being whipped/spanked, being controlled etc.).

That is separate to the hatred, misogyny issue.

But do you really think the no of men who hate women had increased, or that they just depends they can show it through more now.

I think we also notice it more because we're more aware - total misogynists and chauvinists in past generations were seen as normal to some extent. It was normal to look down on women, see them as sex objects or nags or crones - look at the pre 80s movies, TV series, posters etc

or that they just think they can show it through sex more now

I do think there is a more vicious attitude towards women now: whereas before it was acceptable to be sexist within the confines of certain parameters, now the levels of acceptability on the one hand have improved through feminism, but at the same time, there is a backlash that makes some men more aggressively hateful. Also, there definitely wasn't the whole incel movement then, which has changed thinking about interactions with women a lot, even for lads who aren't full-blown incels. The influence of violent porn just wasn't a widespread thing when I was younger, now it's mainstream. It's about exposure to extreme ideas which become normalised via the internet. Pop culture was more 'laddish' when I was younger, was more TV and magazines. It was annoying and objectifying, but not violent. I agree with the 50 shades thing too though (haven't read it, no interest). Again, I think the internet is involved with that too, theories spring up about what 'all women want' rather than what some women want and get passed around as fact.

Having only dated much older men as well as being married to one i havent come across this personally.

A small side issue is its not just porn. Ive noticed with a lot of younger people (not all i hasten to add) is a real lack of social skills. People who talk and act like bots instead of people (our housing officer is a good example of this) Nearly everything is done online now too removing the need for more social interaction. Its much easier to misconstrue the written word than it is while talking face to face or on the phone.

Im so glad i was born and brought up pre internet.

Moralitym1n1 Maybe it's not helpful to think about it as culture as a whole being more violently misogynistic, but that the nature of our culture has changed due to the internet. Extreme attitudes are encouraged within these different tribes, violent impulses supported in some groups and suppressed in others.
HelenaDove Good point about the social skills too, I do get that impression but I'm dealing with foreigners too so didn't know if it was cultural.

Moralitym1n1 Argh! Sorry to post again, tired and need to sleep so am all over the place. I meant to say that I think as homosapiens we don't change really from generation to generation, the same impulses are always there, it's a matter of what's made socially acceptable or unacceptable which permits certain impulses to either be expressed or repressed. Most people were fine with segregation and women not having the vote, until it became socially unacceptable to have such views. Societal control exists through shaming harmful behaviour, but the internet provides anonymity and thus a loophole through which bad behaviour can go unpunished or even rewarded, which leads to these extremes of behaviour.

I'm in my 60's and these stories make me furious. I'm so glad I didn't come of age in these times but i have two granddaughters growing up in this pornified world and of course it's worrying.

The only response, I feel, is to be absolutely discriminating about one's sexual partners, and be ready to say no and walk away from anyone with these tendencies.

Seeking love first, and sex as a development from that, isn't such a bad idea after all. But I guess that sounds awfully fuddy-duddy!

I've had two relationships with porn addicts.
One repeatedly raped me in my sleep including anally, so I would wake up confused, in pain and terrified with him on top of me.
The other had nerve damage from excessive masturbation and the only way he could come was by simultaneously stimulating himself and choking me, until he ejaculated on my face.
Porn is absolutely NOT harmless, and I'm very concerned about how on earth to teach my son not to be influenced by it, when even very violent misogyny is so normalised.

ManxomeFoe It's hard for me to even read your post, as it makes me so upset. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm really sorry these men abused you so horrifically.

the same impulses are always there, it's a matter of what's made socially acceptable or unacceptable which permits certain impulses to either be expressed or repressed

Yes, I think this is a big issue. Misogyny, that hatred of women, I believe is a pervasive problem throughout the ages, across cultures. I think the internet may just magnify it. We have the production and dissemination of literally endless numbers of images/videos depicting the actual torture of real women in the name of male sexual gratification, and calling it pornography. And men are watching these, seeking this material out, like nothing else.

Goebbels understood the power of propaganda and its capacity to assist in persuading one group of people to regard another as less than human.

I think that comment is very apt in this context.

ManxomeFoe I'm so angry to hear what happened to you. It's not only the acts but the way things like this are normalised by porn that's so horrific. I hope you have some peace now.

So sorry those things happened to you Manxome

When the Pill was introduced in the Sixties, one of the things it did was emancipate women — they could finally have sex just for pleasure. They discovered how to enjoy themselves by exploring their bodies with partners and, over time, questions about sex were discussed by the agony aunts in magazines.

The above excerpt , is something I have thought about a lot . Before the introduction of the pill ,woman who didnt want to have sex had the excuse that they didnt want to become pregnant
Today with more easily available methods of contraception and the stigma of unwanted babies ( and I am not saying this is a bad thing ) removed , young girls are under the pressure to have sex as they fear losing the boy they are with to someone else
So its a double edged sword

The easy availibilty of porn to all ages has and will brainwash boys in particular into thinking porn is what sex should be , and that the girls they know should look and act and allow whatever is acted out in these films .
Where as to Victorians the glimpse of an ankle was arousing , what does the future hold for the upcoming generations as to what will be sexually arousing ?, it really is very worrying

A lot of people have mentioned a hatred of woman . I think if questioned most men would say they didnt hate women and dont associate their love of porn as showing hatred to women
I think we have just become immune to what we see on the screen
People who watch violent films seem enjoy seeing people murdered in the most horrific manner ............I think this is linked to peoples lack of empathy to people this happens to in real life ..........ok there is a lot of grief shown on social media , or even the real life media , but I suspect is all part of the grieving by proxy syndrome we see a lot of

pelirocco123 I didn't mean to present the idea that all men hate women, but there is always the potential to negatively define that which is different to ourselves. This is a natural instinct, as nobody wants to see their group as inferior to any other, so we need society to keep in check these base, irrational instincts. Violent porn does the opposite of that, it reinforces the idea that only male pleasure is significant, and the female is just a prop in male fantasies to be used, tortured and abused as they wish, and that this is perfectly acceptable. Not all porn users will come away hating women, but porn normalises abuse of women and the instinct that the female other is less than human.

Ironically enough, I’m not anti-porn. In a healthy, grown-up relationship or sex-life it has its place and women should have as much access to it as men.

Now the author just has to take the final step and think a little bit about how porn is made as well as the effect it has on viewers. Paying people to have sex has no place in a society that values sexual consent. You can't actually separate the misogyny of the porn industry from the misogyny it depicts.

People who watch violent films seem enjoy seeing people murdered in the most horrific manner

I think this is a false analogy.
What you see on screen in porn is actually happening to women. They are actually being choked, spat on, punched, and anally penetrated. This isn't some visual trickery.
What's occurring in popular films when they depict murder isn't real, and we all know it isn't real because the actors are still alive attending the film screenings. Personally, I really hate super graphic depictions of violence, as they're often used almost to titillate. I find that deeply unpleasant.

When people watch real-life violence being captured on screen (and they know it's real), then the visceral reaction against it tends to be stronger, I think, and it gets removed by authorities like social media.

Porn depicts the real-life torture of women. The correct analogy would be if the population was obsessively watching snuff films.

Yes, I do think there is a cultural desensitization to what is happening on screen in general. The specific case of porn is extreme, and it is continually justified by men who want to keep watching it. For whatever reason it gives some men sexual gratification to watch women be abused and suffer during "sex", so they keep producing and distributing such material.